Podcast Episode 010: Night Cloth Nappies

Kind of the same and kind of different to day cloth nappies. Night cloth nappies have a whole new range of possibilities and challenges.

Some of the subjects we cover are…

What is the difference between a night nappy and a day cloth nappy?

How many are we going to need?

Do they take longer to dry?

Why do we have a dedicated night cloth nappy?

Night Cloth Nappies transcript.

Andrew: Welcome to Nappy Leaks, with Vicky Simpson, and Vashti Wadwell. So, how are you doing today, Vashti?

Vashti: I’m very thanks, Andrew. How are you?

Andrew: Excellent. How about you Vicki?

Vicki: Yeah, pretty good. I always say that, don’t I? Pretty good.

Andrew: You do, you do.

Vashti: Yeah.

Andrew: Because you are, pretty good.

Vicki: Yeah. Not great, just pretty good.

Andrew: Actually, I wanted to take a few moments to thank all of our listeners, actually. Our listens in January [00:00:30] went through the roof, and we’re all very, very grateful that you guys are finding the podcast informative, and worth listening to. So, thank you guys very much for that.

Vashti: I’m really enjoying seeing it talked about, and other people referring people to us as well. It’s been really nice, watching the forums and seeing people saying that they’ve actually enjoyed listening to us, it’s been gorgeous.

Andrew: I especially want to thank all of our mums too, for padding the results. That’s excellent. I was [00:01:00] also surprised to see the countries that are listening to us.

Vicki: Australia?

Andrew: Yeah, some people in Australia, yeah. But we’ve also get people in the United States, New Zealand, Japan, United Kingdom, France, Sweden, and one person in Germany.

Vashti: Wow!

Vicki: Really, I had no idea.

Vashti: That is awesome.

Andrew: Because that person in Germany actually emailed me and said, “Are you guys serious?” Never emailed me back, because I thought it was spam. So, if you did email, yes, we’re serious. Also [00:01:30] a review, we had a fantastic review. Don’t forget, if you find the podcast helpful, the best way to help us let everybody else know about the podcast, is to write a review on the iTunes store.

Vicki: What if they have Android?

Andrew: They can still go to the iTunes store. The reason I say iTunes store, is because that’s the only one I can see. Those of you writing reviews in other countries, I’m too tight to pay for the software to be able to see those, so try to do it on the Australian store if you can.
This review was [00:02:00] a great intro into the world of cloth nappies. A wealth of knowledge between these two, awesome. Keep it up. That’s from Mama Bear of two boys.

Vicki: Oh no, it can’t be my mum.

Andrew: Wasn’t mum.

Vashti: I think my mum-

Vicki: No, actually. I recognise the name.

Vashti: Yeah, I recognise the name as well. I’m just trying to place it. I think she’s one of my Instagram followers. Thank you Mama Bear.

Andrew: Nice. So, today’s subject is, night nappies. [00:02:30] Just to check, I did the search of all the other podcasts to try and find if we’d spoken about night nappies, and we have. Every single episode, we have mentioned the word night nappies.

Vashti: Oh wow.

Andrew: Even the episodes where we only talked about fabrics, we talked about night nappies.

Vicki: Oh. So, why are we doing a podcast on night nappies?

Andrew: Because we’re going to go a lot deeper than we ever have before, so buckle up. So, let’s ask some basic questions first. What’s the difference between a night nappy and a day nappy?

Vicki: The absorbency, [00:03:00] yeah. The length of time you’re going to get out of a nappy. So, generally when you’re talking about a cloth nappy, you would by default, be referring to a day nappy. Because you’re going to get two to four hours out of a day nappy, a night nappy is meant to last.

Vashti: You want to try and get at least 10 to 12 hours out of a night nappy, [crosstalk 00:03:20].

Vicki: Even if your baby sleeps for two hours at a time, and feeds and sleeps, and feeds and sleeps overnight. Generally, the goal is by the four to six month mark, [00:03:30] you want your kid in the night nappy, where you’re not having to kind of wake them as much, to change them overnight, and encourage their sleep for longer periods.

Vashti: I know Kylen, we pretty much had him in dedicated night nappies by about three and a half, four months. But he was still feeding through the night, until he was 22 months. So, we just didn’t change him. We popped him in that night nappy at around that 7.00, 7.30 mark, and then even though he’d wake, we’d feed him and then put him back to sleep, because he generally fell asleep at the breast. [00:04:00] The last thing I wanted to do was turn on the lights and find nappies. It just wakes everyone in the house, it’s the worst. The quicker you can get baby back to sleep, the quicker everyone in the house can get back to sleep.

Andrew: That kind of puts the kibosh on my next question, why don’t we just use day nappies. Is there any part of a day nappy you could use as a night nappy, or is any day nappies that will do both?

Vicki: Absolutely. You can, I’ve said it many times before, I’m a big believer in using what you’ve got. So, if you’ve got inserts from [00:04:30] your day nappies, or you’ve got fitted nappies, you can convert them into night, going into that in a bit more depth. But yeah, pretty much. It’s about creating the right size bucket. So, by that I mean adding more absorbency to your nappy, to increase the capacity of the nappy. To allow for the extra wee that’s going to going into the nappy.

Andrew: So, silly question. How many are we going to need?

Vashti: I normally recommend three. Just to take into account your wash cycle. Night nappies, if you have a dedicated [00:05:00] night nappy, they will take a little bit longer to dry than your standard day nappy, because there is more absorbency. But if you’re washing every single day, you’ve got your two night nappies in the wash, while they’re washing and drying that third one for that third night, you can get away with less. Especially if you’re adding in absorbency to your day nappies, if you’ve got standard fitteds. You can get away with just your normal day nappy, adding that absorbency.
But, having three dedicated night [00:05:30] nappies, if you are going down that path, is enough.

Andrew: Do they take a lot longer to dry, or just like the all in twos, they come apart into little pieces?

Vashti: It really does depend on what style of night nappy that you choose. You can get pocket night nappies, or fitted night nappies. And a lot of them will break apart into separate pieces, which does help with the drying time. But, something like a dedicated fitted nappy, like the Baby Behind night nappy, has a fitted shell, and [00:06:00] then an extra insert that pops into it. Even the shell has more layers than a standard fitted. So, it is going to take longer to dry than a standard fitted.
In saying that, here in Brisbane, especially on the hot days that we’ve been having through summer, you can still get it dry in a few hours. It can go through the clothes dryer as well, if it rotates quicker.

Andrew: Just in case we get three days of rain.

Vashti: Yes, exactly.

Andrew: The next question I’ve got written down, is kind of irrelevant now, [00:06:30] because you’ve kind of answered it. But I’ll ask it anyway. Why do we have to have a dedicated night nappy, can’t we just get away with the day nappy?

Vashti: It’s more about trying to make sure you’ve got that absorbency. You can use day nappies, if you’ve got enough absorbency in there.

Vicki: Or you’ve got a light wetter. I do have some people, and it almost freaks me out when I see comments like, “Oh, I used a Candy and it lasted all night.” The reason it freaks me out is because it’s a day nappy, and it’s all about expectation. So, then the next person comes along and goes, ” [00:07:00] Oh, hang on a minute, I had to get up and change sheets overnight.” You know, I don’t want to be setting those sort of expectations to say that, “Yes a day nappy is going to go overnight.” You might be lucky, and a day nappy may last you the night, but as a rule, that’s more the exception than the rule.
You know what, if you’re testing your night nappies. You know, you chuck a day nappy on, let’s see how we’re going to go. Or, bub happens to fall asleep earlier than expected, and you wake up in the middle of [00:07:30] the night and sheets are wet, and all that sort of stuff. Just chuck a fricking towel over it. You wouldn’t be the first mother.

Vashti: No.

Vicki: Just chuck a towel over it, deal with it in the morning, and try again the next night.

Andrew: Okay, so that’s the real difference, the absorbency.

Vicki: Yeah.

Andrew: Because with the daytime nappies, you only want them on two hours because they get too wet, and then there’s too much wet on the skin, is that what it is? The night nappies, they absorb all that away for a longer period of time.

Vicki: No. Not necessarily. Your day nappies will absorb it away. The issue comes down to, [00:08:00] a lot of your day nappies, they’re designed to last that two to four hours. So, there’s not quite as much absorbency.

Vashti: So, the bucket starts to overflow.

Vicki: Yeah.

Vashti: Like, it’s got to go somewhere. It will go through-

Vicki: It will push through the shell, which will then end up wetting pyjamas, sheets, mattresses.

Vashti: Clothes.

Vicki: Yeah.

Andrew: People sleeping next to them.

Vashti: Yeah.

Andrew: Are the fabrics different in night nappies? Or is it the same fabrics, just more of it?

Vicki: pretty much.

Vashti: Pretty much.

Vicki: Wool is great overnight, [00:08:30] as a cover.

Vashti: Or even as a booster, you can get wool boosters, which are really, really absorbent.

Vicki: I think they’re probably … Unless you’ve got granny knitting them. I suppose I’m not someone to tell you how you spend your money, but I think for value for money, I’ve never seen the value in a booster.

Vashti: They are more expensive.

Vicki: For the capacity, though.

Vashti: They do soak up a lot. But it does come down to, they are a lot bulkier as well. So, it’s about choosing what is going to work best [00:09:00] for your budget, and also fitted comfort. One of things, we’re talking about all this extra absorbency. You need to be aware that all that extra absorbency is going to add a lot of extra bulk to the nappy as well.

Vicki: The John Wayne waddle.

Vashti: Yeah. So, it’s not too bad on a toddler. They will get a waddle on in that big nappy. So, if you put it on and they’re still moving around a little bit before they go to bed, they will get the John Wayne walk.

Vicki: Actually, a warning. If you’re doing night nappies, don’t put it on [00:09:30] until … Don’t do bath, nappy, play, and then bed. Because nine times out of ten, they’ll poop.

Vashti: They will.

Vicki: I kid you not.

Vashti: Yep.

Vicki: Just put a flat, or anything on them. Literally pop your nappy on right before bed.

Vashti: Well, that’s another reason why having three night nappies good, because it’ll always be that one time where you put the night nappy on, and for whatever reason, bubby won’t go straight to sleep, and they’ll poo that nappy. Then you’ll be sitting [00:10:00] there going, “What do I do now? I don’t have another night nappy.”

Vicki: It seems to be, it’s like getting a new nappy. It’s just these thing, your fate. “Oh my god, I’ve been waiting for this print to be released forever.” You put it on, and three minutes later it’s gone.

Vashti: Yep. But, yeah. With that bulk of that nappy, on a toddler it’s not too bad. But on a little bubby, like a four to six month old bubby, that bulk can be quite excessive, and as a parent you can be [00:10:30] concerned about how much bulk is around your baby’s bottom. The fact that their legs are lifted up off the mattress, and stuff like that.
I do have a lot of parents who, they’ll come and they’ll buy a night nappy, and they’ll put it on. Then they’ll send me pictures, or they’ll send me email and they’ll say, “Bub’s bum is in the air, their legs can’t touch, it’s got to be uncomfortable.” Honestly it’s not.

Vicki: Well, they tell you if they’re uncomfortable.

Vashti: Yeah. If your baby isn’t comfortable, they’re going to let you know.

Andrew: Because they’ve got their back up [inaudible 00:11:00].

Vashti: [00:11:00] With Kylen, we were third baby. I was like, “You know what? I’ve got this down pat. I know.” And because he stopped pooing overnight really early, we stopped changing overnight. So, we did use little fitteds, with a pre fold over the top of them, and then the woollen cover over it, and that would normally get us through from that 10.00, 10.30 feed, through to that 6.00, 6.30 feed. He’d still wake in the night for feeds, sometimes two or three times a night.

Vicki: I was going to say. [00:11:30] You got 10.30 to 6.00. Do you know Gabriel was four. Four years old, not four months. Four years old, when he slept through the night.

Vashti: No, well Kylen will sleep through the night most nights now. He’s a bit of a pain to get to bed at night, and so some night he’s not going to sleep until 8.30, 9.00. We go to bed at 7.00, 7.30, but he’ll sit down, roll around the bed and try and and talk to me, and stuff like that. He just doesn’t want to go to sleep, and he’s up at 5.30, six o’clock. But, he will sleep [00:12:00] through that entire period. Once he’s asleep, that’s it. He’s generally asleep until the next morning, which is fantastic. I’m really, really thankful of that.
But I also did put that down to the fact that, we did a lot of trying to getting into that habit of going back to sleep fairly quickly, and working on that ourselves. I am very, very fortunate with my third. My first two, did not sleep. I still remember Michaela, she was past two, and still waking six to eight times.

Vicki: But you know, they tell. “Oh, [00:12:30] your baby will sleep through, six weeks.” You know, you hear pregnant mums listening to this, don’t listen to people who tell you that babies sleep through at six weeks. That’s the exception.

Vashti: Something like a baby, is like the worst lie that anyone can tell you. Because babies don’t sleep, they just don’t.

Vicki: Yeah.

Vashti: I would much prefer-

Vicki: So, adjust your expectations now.

Vashti: Yeah.

Andrew: You’re giving them the aspiration they always [crosstalk 00:12:55].

Vicki: Then lower those expectations further.

Vashti: And you know what? [00:13:00] It doesn’t get any better, because when they finally do start sleeping through-

Vicki: You don’t.

Vashti: You don’t, because you’re so used to waking up. Then when you finally get used to sleeping through again, they’re teenagers. They’re starting to go out with their friends. They’re 18, and they go out, and you’re up all night waiting home for them.

Vicki: You never sleep the same. Once you’re a mum, you just don’t sleep the same. You don’t watch the news the same, you just don’t do things the same once you’re a mum.

Andrew: [00:13:30] When Gabriel started sleeping through, I’d wake up in the middle of the night, and think I woke up because he called out. I’d go and check on him and he’d be fast asleep. I obviously just needed to go to the toilet.
So, what sort of fabrics should we be looking for, the most absorbent ones for these?

Vicki: Bamboo is better at night, rather than microfiber.

Vashti: Yeah, your bamboo-cotton blends. Like, your natural fibres. Your synthetics, they’ll draw it in quickly, but they’ll end up with compression leaks. So, stick with your natural fibres. Also, use your stay- [00:14:00] dry layers. So, have your micro fleece side of the nappy, or a fleece liner or something like that. Suede cloth, even. Because you want them to feel dry. So, if they can feel wet, they’re going to end up waking up and being uncomfortable because they’re feeling wet.
Whereas, if you have a night nappy that has that layer inside it, to draw the moisture away, it will keep them feeling dry, and hopefully get them sleeping.

Andrew: Cool. How much would we expect to pay for one?

Vashti: So, your wool covers are probably going to be the most expensive part of your [00:14:30] night nappy. If you’ve got someone in your family who’s really great at knitting, then you can get them to make you a woollen soaker. There are thousands upon thousands of free patterns on the internet. I do recommend, I think we’ve mentioned this before-

Vicki: [inaudible 00:14:44]

Vashti: Yeah. Have 100% wool though, don’t use a synthetic blend of any description, it just doesn’t work. But 100% pure wool. You can make a wrap style, or a pull up style.

Vicki: Leggings.

Vashti: Leggings.

Vicki: Shorties. Longies and shorties, [00:15:00] that’s what they’re called.

Vashti: But if you’re buying a woollen cover, you are looking at spending a good chunk of money on that, anywhere up to around the $50, $60 mark. I have seen them higher, depending on the type of wool and whether or not they’ve been hand knitted, or hand designed.

Vicki: I spent way on that, when, I think it was when Bella was a baby.

Vashti: [inaudible 00:15:25]

Vicki: But, do you remember Katanya?

Vashti: Yes.

Vicki: She used to make, what did she do?

Vashti: [00:15:30] I can’t remember.

Vicki: They were works of art. Andrew felted all of them, but she made them-

Andrew: I meant to say, were those the ones I destroyed?

Vicki: Yes, they are. But they were-

Andrew: It just encases the value of all the other ones out there.

Vicki: Gosh, they were honestly works of are. She would … They were just amazing. Baa Bumbs, that was it. So, if you Google Baa Bumbs, B-A-A B-U-M-B-S, yeah, I’m sure you’ll pick up some old photos. They were just amazing [inaudible 00:15:55], a pair.

Andrew: No wonder you were so angry when I destroyed them.

Vicki: Yes.

Vashti: Because actually, there’s some [00:16:00] really great work at home mums that I’ve been seeing recently, that are repurposing old woollen sweaters and stuff like that. So, they’re cutting up old wool sweaters and-

Vicki: The arms become the legs and stuff like that.

Vashti: Enhanced stitching designs on the back of them, and appliqueing them, and stuff. There’s some really gorgeous things that you can do with it. I have some beautiful wool that … My mum and I went to the [00:16:30] haberdasher while I was pregnant, I dragged the big kids along an everything. We choose wools because she was going to knit me some covers, and you know what? The wool’s still sitting in mum’s house.

Vicki: Funny you say that, because I bought some filtered wool to make some wool covers. It might have been when Arabella was born, and it’s still sitting in it’s plastic bag from when I had it shipped to me.

Vashti: Wow.

Vicki: I won’t detail you how much we paid for that, the cost.

Vashti: Well, this is was just the thread, she was going to fit them for me. I’ve found all the patterns, and I’ve chosen [00:17:00] a few so that she could have her choice of which ones she wanted to do. There was a couple of different styles, and yeah. She made me those woollen covers.

Andrew: So, which ones did you buy?

Vashti: I got a few, way back with the big kids, I bought some Baby Behinds Wraps. So, they just went on like a normal cover and velcroed up, they were made from a felted material. They were really gorgeous, and they asked us through, and I got to use them on Kylen as well, so they got lots of use.

Vicki: So, when you’re talking $50 [00:17:30] for a cover, and it lasts for three kids. It’s actually … And we’re talking, it lasts two and a half years per kid. You get a lot of wear out of them.

Andrew: This question might pain you, but if i didn’t destroy the covers that we had, would they still be useful?

Vicki: Yeah, yeah.

Vashti: Yeah.

Vicki: Well, actually, I’ve actually got some down at the warehouse. You know what, the felted ones would be really cool for a newborn baby. But I know I’ve got a couple of wool covers down at the warehouse, that I had been meaning to just chuck out to my VIPs. Just waiting for that [00:18:00] post that I see, where somebody needs something, and I can just gift it on. Because they’re in perfect condition.

Vashti: Well I’ve gifted a lot of mine on. Ones that I’m loving at the moment, I’ve bought Imagine Baby, which are machine knitted. But the ones I’m loving at the moment are actually Disanas, I love them. They are just gorgeous. I have two of hers, one is a pull up, and one is a wrap style. They’re just absolutely … They do cost a little more, but they’re gorgeous.

Vicki: Wool’s an investment.

Vashti: It is. It definitely [00:18:30] is. The two Disanas that I’ve got, we’ve been using for nearly a year now, and we’ll be able to continue using them until Kylen decides that he doesn’t want to wear night nappies. He’s being very difficult on night nappies. He was dry for months, and so I finally said, “Right, let’s go, no more night nappy.” And we went two nights without a night nappy, and then I wasn’t home for bedtime one night, and he cracked it at his father and said, “No, no. I want to wear a nappy.” I walked in just [00:19:00] towards the end, and I’m like, “No, no. You don’t need to wear a night nappy, we haven’t worn a night nappy for the last two nights.” “No, I want a night nappy.” “no, you’re not wearing a night nappy, Kylen.” Sure enough that night, he peed. Thankfully we had the wet mat down, so we didn’t have a [crosstalk 00:19:14].

Vicki: And a towel. Let’s be real.

Andrew: Towels, towels and it’s been a few nights.

Vashti: Do you know what I actually did use, is my Close Parent play mat. It’s a bit 1.2 metres square, and it’s fleece [00:19:30] on top and PUL backed. We just put that on top of the bed, and sleeping on that, fantastic. Because the fleece is on the top, it draws the moisture in, and it still feels dry.

Andrew: Is it the one with pictures of roads and everything on it?

Vashti: No.

Andrew: Not one of those play mats? Kid would’ve been sleeping in the street.

Vashti: But yeah, no. We tried the second night, and wet the bed again. I went, “You know what? You can go back in a night nappy.” Every so often we try that whole, “Do you want to go [00:20:00] bed without a nappy tonight?” “No, I want to wear a nappy.” “Okay, wear a nappy.”

Vicki: Yeah, because you really can’t just tell three year olds what to do, full stop.

Vashti: No, no.

Andrew: So, different types. So, there’s a wrap around one, and there’s pants. Is there any other types, or is it just those two?

Vashti: Oh, for covers?

Andrew: Yeah.

Vashti: Oh well, you’ve got the wrap around, which is your normal cover, and you’ve got the pull ups [crosstalk 00:20:22]. Then the pull up shorties, which are like a [crosstalk 00:20:26] short, and then the longies which go all the way down to the ankle.

Andrew: [00:20:30] I know the shorts, but the wrap arounds are they like-

Vicki: A cover.

Andrew: A PUL cover?

Vashti: Yeah, they’re pretty much designed exactly like a PULL cover, and they do up with-

Andrew: And they’re still wool?

Vashti: Yeah. Made out of a wool fabric.

Andrew: Okay.

Vashti: They do up with either snaps, or normally Velcro on wool. That just means that you get that much snugger fit.

Andrew: So, does it last less because you’re stretching it over the nappy?

Vashti: No, no.

Vicki: They’re usually two layers, so it kind of [inaudible 00:20:58].

Vashti: Well, no, my Disana wrap, and [00:21:00] my Baby Behinds were only one layer.

Vicki: Really?

Vashti: Yeah. But it’s quite a thick material, it’s not your normal thin material, it’s quite thick. Well, the Baby Behinds ones, I bought … Well, Michaela’s 10 and a half now, and I had them before she was born, because I was using them on Bray. So, they’re still okay, they’ll definitely last, as long as you treat them well, and wash them properly, and stuff like that. Don’t leave them-

Andrew: Keep them away from your husband.

Vashti: Yeah, and don’t leave them in the washing machine. So, [00:21:30] Brad filtered a couple of mine, by leaving them, saying he’d do the washing in the morning, and then try and hang it out that night.

Andrew: So, how much are you going to pay for night nappies?

Vashti: Well, that really depends on whether you not you use a fitted day nappy. I think you would normally pay around $25, $30 for a decent quality, fitted day nappy. Then if you added a pre fold, or some boosting from some of your other day nappies-

Vicki: Or even from your newborn stash. We said during the newborn [00:22:00] podcast, that you can use pre folds. Pre folds should be in every stash, you use them in your newborn baby. Then, you come later, and you boost a fitted nappy with your pre fold. So, it’s about using what’s already in your stash. So, you can use some of those newborn components again later on, to save money. Because, with a dedicated night nappy, you can pay upwards of 50, 55.

Vashti: Yeah, well most of the dedicated night nappies range from $35 to $48.

Vicki: Because there’s a lot of fabric in them, there’s a lot of bamboo in them, [00:22:30] and that’s what pushes the price up, more than anything.

Vashti: And if you’re looking at any of your handmade, well I’ve seen them go for $70 to $90, for a handmade night nappy.

Vicki: Or, if you want to go the whole other side, you can pop flats on.

Vashti: Yeah.

Vicki: Flats, and pre folds, and a double pre fold overnight. Yeah, it’s a case of testing the waters. You don’t have to go and spend, because we’ve already told you, okay you’ve got $50 for a night nappy, $50 odd for a wool cover, and you’re going to need three night nappies. So, we’re telling you, you’ve got [00:23:00] to spend $200 in night nappies. You can, if you want to. You can also go completely the other way, and do it for under $50 for the whole kit and caboodle, and still have a good system.

Andrew: Well, that kind of fits into my next question. How could you do it if you didn’t want to buy a night nappy? Could you do it with the stuff that you’ve got for the day?

Vicki: Absolutely.

Vashti: Most definitely. So, things like your flats. Use your flat, or get two flats and double your flats up.

Vicki: That’s what my parents used to, double up overnight.

Vashti: Double your flats, yep. Pop a little microfiber booster [00:23:30] inside that, to act as your stay dry layer, or a micro fleece I should say. Microfiber should never go against babies skin directly. Micro fleece on the other hand, is okay. That will act as that stay dry layer, and that quick drawing that moisture in, and then the double flats, or the double pre folds will hold it all in.

Vicki: With the PUL cover, PUL is much more inexpensive. Or, depending on the physical size of your nappy, [00:24:00] you may even be able to get away with one of your pockets, using it as a cover. It just depends, you need that leg fit to-

Vashti: With Kylen, we didn’t move into that dedicated night nappy until he was close to six months, before that we were using a pocket nappy with two boosters inside it. Like, two really good quality, bamboo cotton blend, thick boosters. That worked okay for a while.

Vicki: That was my tummy. We’re actually going to get a [inaudible 00:24:30].

Vashti: Yeah.

Vicki: [00:24:30] I don’t know if you can hear that, but here it’s so dark.

Vashti: It’s gotten very dark.

Andrew: We are recording in Queensland, just in case you’re wondering where we are.

Vicki: And it is 5 o’clock.

Vashti: Yeah, no, but we were using a pocket nappy, and it wasn’t until he was close to six months that we just weren’t getting the absorbency, and we were starting to get leaks. Because it was pushing through the PUL. It was normally around the legs, because that’s where the stitching is for the [00:25:00] nappy. So, we find most of the time if you’re going to get leaks on your PUL shell … Oh, did you hear that thunder?

Vicki: That was a big crack of lightning.

Vashti: It will be around the legs, or where the stitch. Because that’s where the larger holes are.

Vicki: It’s a big like a channel isn’t it? If you’re building a sandcastle, where you’ve got a channel back to to ocean, the water will follow, always probably the channel. So, it looks for the weakest-

Vashti: Yeah. But [00:25:30] that worked for us, until not long before six months. Then he was just wetting too much. Or, one of the other things we did, even just after we came back home from the hospital, we were using a little Bam Bam with a pre fold over the top, and a worn cover. That was working for us, with a fleece liner in it, just to keep him dry.
So, you can do it on a budget, and you can use what’s in your existing stash. If you do have a heavy wetter, or [00:26:00] if you’ve got the ability to spend a little bit more money, and buy some dedicated products, you can get really great systems. We easily get 12 plus hours out of some of our dedicated night nappies with a woollen cover.

Andrew: Is there something you can try with baby first before you lay all the money on night nappies?

Vicki: You’d want to have a good idea of how much capacity you’re going to need. Like, whether you’ve got that heavy wetter, light wetter. It’s why is generally, when I’m putting together packs and stuff like that, I always seem to leave out night nappies, [00:26:30] because they are so many variables. Is your baby a heavy wetter or is it a light wetter? How old is the baby? How long are they sleeping for? Are they feeding through the needing? Are they sleeping through the night? You know, there’s no one sized solution for night nappies.
So, a bit of practise is really good. By the time your baby is six months, you’ll know what it’s going to take to get your baby through a day nappy-

Andrew: Is that when you start using night nappies?

Vicki: Pretty much.

Andrew: So, after six months?

Vashti: Most people start between that four to six month mark.

Andrew: [00:27:00] Okay, so during those four to six months, what are you watching for? Are you watching for how much he or she is wetting at night?

Vashti: Yeah, so how much absorbency you’re adding. So, if you can get away with a little fitted nappy, or an all-in-one, and that’s getting you through six to eight hours. Which, you’re going from that 10.00, 10.30 feed, through to that 6.00, 6.30 feed, and you’re finding that, that’s working for you. Then as they’re getting a bit bigger, you’re thinking it’s not quite getting through, let’s add a little [00:27:30] booster in there, or something like that.
Or, you’ve got a fitted and you add a little booster on the inside, and that’s not quite working. So, you add a booster on the outside, and then put the cover over that. Actually, what I might do Andrew, I’ll send you some photos of some boosting on the outside of the nappy, so that you can add it to the podcast for people to see what I’m talking about.

Vicki: I did a video the other day, actually, with Brock, on how to boost … It’s the same sort of concept. That you boost inside the [00:28:00] nappy, you’ve got to make sure those legs still … The elastic is against the legs. So, once you get to that capacity, then start boosting between the nappy and the cover. Which is, why we always say, go with fitted.

Vashti: Yeah.

Vicki: Because the fitted is completely absorbent. The one thing I would say, is if you’re pregnant and listening to this, don’t even consider night nappies right now. Take them off your radar. You will know. It’s way too hard to guess what your child is going to be doing in six months time. [00:28:30] By the time you’ve been doing cloth nappies for six months, you’ll be an old hand at it, and it will make so much more sense.

Andrew: Back to the covers, you said you could also use different covers as well?

Vicki: PUL.

Andrew: It doesn’t have, so you just use old covers?

Vashti: Yeah.

Vicki: Yeah. PUL or fleece. Fleece is a synthetic. I actually used to make a cover that was micro fleece on the inside, and polar fleece on the outside. That was actually a really, really good cover. You didn’t get a lot of compression leaks with it.

Vashti: No.

Vicki: It actually contained pretty well.

Vashti: Well, fleece is pretty much the synthetic [00:29:00] version of wool.

Vicki: Just micro fleece on it’s own wouldn’t have been enough, you needed those two layers, or a thick fleece.

Vashti: Malden Mills fleece is absolutely perfect for night nappies.

Vicki: Can you still get that?

Vashti: It is a lot harder to get. Baby Blossom is the distributor for Swaddlebees, here in Australia, and they do Malden Mills fleece covers. Which are quite good. Bonnie Bums used to do a night nappy, which the shell was-

Vicki: That [00:29:30] was kind of an all-in-one, wasn’t it?

Vashti: Well, it’s a pocket snap-in one, type thing.

Vicki: Yeah.

Vashti: So, you had a fleece inner or a suede cloth inner, and a Malden Mills fleece outer, with a pocket that you popped a tri fold in. Then there was another tri-fold that snapped on to the inside of it. Absolutely amazing night nappy, and I’m so sad that they’re not made.

Vicki: Lauren, can you hear?

Vashti: This is back when Bonnie owned Bonnie Bums. But she [00:30:00] stopped making them, because Malden Mills fleece got really, really difficult to acquire here in Australia. The price of it went through the roof, it is an American product, and it was very difficult to get it here in Australia. I have spoken with a couple of my other suppliers. Shannon from Wild Child, she actually did a trial one. She got a small amount of Malden Mills fleece, and trialled one. But we worked out the cost to actually put it on the shelf, was going to be around about $65, $70.

Andrew: [00:30:30] We’ve got a bunch of listeners now, if we wanted to start an email campaign to bring it back, we could. We’ve probably got the listeners behind us now.

Vashti: Maybe we should just talked to Vicki, about converting the Bamboo Delights with a fleecer outer.

Andrew: She’s looking for another excuse to go back to China.

Vicki: Yes. No, I found my excuse to go back to China, remember? I have this issue with leaving, because I want to take you to China. I want to show all of the things that Vashti and I … it [00:31:00] was such an amazing experience. Vashti was going, “I want to go and see a baby [inaudible 00:31:06]. But, I have issues with, god the kids could probably hear this in years time, years to come. But, I happily found out the girls, but this is what happens when you have a third child, they become the baby. It’s like, “Well, what do I do with my baby? Who’s going to look after Gabriel?”

Andrew: Your six year old.

Vicki: My six year old, yes. My baby. So, I can’t leave him behind, but I can happily leave the girls. [00:31:30] I don’t know. It’s a third child thing.

Andrew: You still call him a baby, because he goes and cries sometimes. I think we might wrap it up before we got washed away.

Vicki: It’s coming down pretty heavy now.

Andrew: We’re in Queensland and trust me, it was sunny and shiny when we started doing this podcast. Thank you, Vicki.

Vicki: Thanks, Andrew.

Andrew: Thank you Vashti.

Vashti: Thanks, Andrew. Bye guys!

Vicki: Bye!

Andrew: Vicki Simpson is the current president of the Australian Nappy Association, and has been making and selling cloth nappies for 13 years. [00:32:00] You can contact Vicki through her website, bubblebubs.com.au. Or call 1300-792-232. Vashti Wadwell is the secretary of the Australian Nappy Association, and is the owner of Australia’s first bricks and mortar nappy store, Nest Nappies, in Brisbane, Australia. She has been using cloth nappies for 12 years, and currently has one child still in nappies. You can contact Vashti through her website nestnappies.com.au. Or phone 073217-5200. [00:32:30] If you have any comments about the podcast, you can email us at feedback@nappyleaks.com. If you found this podcast helpful, then the way to thank is to leave feedback in the iTunes store. I am your host, Andrew Simpson.