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Nappy Leaks Podcast #48 Vashti and Vicki go to Germany

This episode is sponsored by Seedling Baby! They are giving away a 7 pack of their one size fits most pocket nappies to try! All you have to do is leave a review on the Nappy Leaks Facebook or in your podcast app, screen shot your review and send it to Winner will be drawn at random on December 13, 2020. Competition is open worldwide to people over 18. One entry per review. International winners must cover postage.

We’ve got something a bit special this week! It’s a little bit travel show and a little bit cloth nappy show. Vicki and Vashti are back from their trip to Germany! They went to Kind + Jugend, the biggest trade show for baby products in the world. Vicki went to find new retailers and Vashti went to find new products. They discuss innovative new products that are caring for our babies and the future of their planet as well as the culture and uptake of cloth nappies in Australia vs around the world.

Transcript: Vashti and Vicki go to Germany

Andrew: Welcome Vashti.

Vashti: Hi, Andrew. How are you?

Andrew: Good, how are you?

Vashti: Good thanks.

Andrew: Welcome Vicki.

Vicki: Hi, Andrew.

Andrew: [laughs] Vicki’s not feeling 100%, but we’ll see how we go.

Vashti: Didn’t bring chocolate this time.

Vicki: No, that’s going to make me feel worse.

Andrew: No, it’s not actually, it’s actually eating which has made her feel bad.

Vicki: I ate too much.

Andrew: Or was it what you ate.

Vicki: Yeah, McDonalds, I never, ever eat McDonalds, and now every time I eat McDonalds, this is why I don’t eat McDonalds.

Andrew: We’ll take that bit out so people don’t know you hate McDonalds.

Vicki: I hate McDonalds.

Vashti: And we’ll throw that in later on.

Vicki: Even a ham and cheese toastie, I thought oh no, this is safe. No.

Andrew: But it’s made in a different section. 

Vicki: It’s still made with plastic cheese and plastic ham. The bread actually looks normal, but that’s about it.

Vashti: I don’t think it’s normal bread.

Andrew: It’s amazing how they can make bread look normal.

Vicki: I did not, the kids love McDonalds when I actually let them have it, but I just, just Joe eats McDonalds a lot.

Vashti: It turns my stomach.

Vicki: It’s just the smell when you walk into a McDonalds, the smell just really turns me off, yuck.

Vashti: Well you offered to me and I’m like, no thanks. 

Andrew: So we have a sponsor.

Vashti: We do, today…

Andrew: Our sponsor is Seedling Baby.

Vashti: Seedling Baby. So Seedling Baby has donated one of their seven packs of their pocket nappies. The seven pack has their three gorgeous icon prints and four of their beautiful plains. They’re pocket nappies, one size fits most. And the idea behind the seven pack is that you try one nappy a day for a week and see how you like it. I always say to people, just start with that first nappy of the morning, and use the cloth nappy for that one. And if there’s a poo in it, get rid of the solids and wash the nappy, for wees, and once you’ve gotten the poo out, just wash the nappy with your normal clothes and see how you go. It’s a great way to start with cloth.

Andrew: Nice.

Vashti: I love my Seedling Baby pockets, they’re beautiful. 

Andrew: You know probably a lot of our listeners are already cloth users.

Vashti: I know, but we do have a lot who are just starting out as well and learning all the basics.

Andrew: That’s true, that’s true.

Vashti: So this is a great one for all those beginners.

Andrew: Well the way our listeners are growing, we’re definitely picking that up. Thank you Seedling Baby. And just remember, the hosts don’t get any kick back from giving these prizes away, I’m the only one that benefits.

Vashti: Just with love.

Vicki: Eggplant taco, water emoji.

Andrew: I just don’t know what to do with all these nappies now that I don’t have any babies. 

Vicki: Eggplant taco, water emoji. 

Vashti: OK.

Andrew: And to enter and win, all you do is just go to the Apple Podcasts, because it’s not called Apple Podcasts anymore, it’s not called iTunes anymore.

Vashti: Oh, isn’t it? 

Andrew: No, because they’re all separate apps now. But you’d know that if you updated your system, so you haven’t updated your system yet, have you?

Vashti: No, I haven’t. Brent was actually talking to me about the update last night and he was like, have you done it yet, because they’ve moved something, I need to find it. I’m like no, I haven’t done it yet.

Andrew: He was probably looking for podcasts. It’s a separate app now. So all you have to do is just give us a rating on Apple Podcasts or your podcaster of choice. Or like or poke or swipe right, on the Nappy Leaks Facebook page. Is that what you do, swipe right?

Vicki: Mm.

Vashti: Or leave us a review.

Andrew: Leave us a review.

Vicki: You’re acting like I know what is actually going on here. 

Vashti: Jenna knows. 

Andrew: Jenna knows, what’s going on, Jenna?

Jenna: Were you about to say the important next bit, which is screenshot that, and email it to  

Andrew: See, it’s written down.

Jenna: I don’t trust you. I have no faith. Continue.

Vashti: We have faith in you though, Jenna.

Andrew: Thanks, Jenna. Yes, everybody get that email address? It’s not at the Nappy Leaks website. And sorry we can’t announce the winners on the show, because well we record them sporadically and we give the awards away on time, but we don’t record the episodes on time, so we can’t announce them on the show.

Vashti: That’s OK, if you like the Nappy Leaks Facebook page, you’ll find out who the winner is.

Andrew: Yes, I did not know that, excellent.

Vicki: I’m sure there was a recent winner because I’ve just sent something out.

Andrew: Yeah, you did, yeah. 

Vashti: I think you’ll find it on the Nappy Leaks Facebook page. I don’t know. Maybe. We might do something like that.

Andrew: Do you want me to bring the mic over there Jenna, so you can just comment from your seat?

Vicki: No, she’ll just keep coughing into it.

Andrew: Thank you everybody who’s entered by the way, and wow, we get some fantastic reviews, and I’ve got a couple here that Vashti is going to read out. 

Vashti: So Courts S said “So much great info. This podcast is a must for anyone looking to use cloth nappies, or for anyone who is already using them. Cloth nappies can be very daunting at the start, so having a podcast I could listen to, helped wrap my head around them was great. My baby’s needs, when it came to nappies, are always changing as well, so I never stop needing questions answered or advice. I find there are so many stages to cloth nappies. Newborns, sickness, starting solids, growing into one size fits most. When your toddler learns to take off the nappy themselves, storage, and this podcast helps me through all of them. Keep up the great work, team.” Thanks Court. 

Vicki: Wow, that was actually really in depth. My reviews are like Yeah, mate, this is cool. Good fridge. Or yeah, nice quiet washing machine. So thank you.

Vashti: That was lovely. We’ve got another five star here from Fifi Tink, it’s titled “So much to learn. I was already using cloth, but started getting leaks and was considering other options, so needed to do some research. So very informative and entertaining. It feels like Vicki and Vashti are like my mums’ group and always encouraging me. Thank you ladies. I have already recommended it to a few mums that have been interested in cloth.” Aw, thanks Fifi.

Vicki: That’s nice. 

Vashti: I like being part of a mums’ group. 

Vicki: A nice mums’ group. 

Vashti: And yes. 

Vicki: I don’t know, I left my mums’ group pretty early on. But then way back then I was considered like a crunchy mum because the whole breastfeeding and cloth nappies and 15 years ago, was very much…

Vashti: I had a really great mums’ group with Braith. Mind you, we were living in a small country town. But the core group of us were just fantastic, and we’re still friends now. Like Braith is 14 tomorrow. Well, when this airs, it will be 14 a month ago. But you know, we’re still in contact, and I can say this on air because it will air after and there’s no chance of Braith hearing it, but he is actually getting tickets to The Cursed Child for his birthday. We’re taking down to Melbourne for the weekend, and hoping to catch up with two of the other kids from that mums’ group because they both live in Melbourne. 

Andrew: What’s Cursed Child?

Vicki: Yeah, no, I don’t know either.

Vashti: It’s a Harry Potter stage show.

Andrew: Oh right, I thought it was a band. I was going to say band.

Vashti: No, it’s a stage production of, it’s a Harry Potter themed stage production.

Vicki: See this goes to show where I fail at parenting. My kids aren’t into Harry Potter and I think I’d rather stab myself in the eye than go and watch a play about Harry Otter. I remember…

Vashti: Harry Otter!

Vicki: Whatever, Harry Potter. 

Andrew: Prime placement there, Honey.

Vicki: Do you remember when it as just as bad when I watched Lord of the Rings with you on a date. Do you remember what I said at the end of the movie? 

Andrew: That wasn’t a date.

Vicki: It was, it was one…

Andrew: No, no.

Vicki: Yeah.

Andrew: We went with friends. I didn’t want to go.

Vicki: I didn’t want to go.

Andrew: I didn’t want to go. 

Vicki: We got to the end of a three hour movie and I clearly remember saying, “Are you kidding me? After three hours it still hasn’t finished.”

Andrew: I slept for an hour during that movie. I actually slept. I went with John Cook. John Cook is the writer and director of the cartoon we did together. If you’re interested…

Vicki: No, don’t, don’t, don’t.

Andrew: It’s on YouTube.

Vicki: For the love of God, don’t.

Andrew: Go watch it, it’s called Sev Trek. S-E-V-T-R-E-K.

Vicki: Don’t, seriously, you will never get that time. You know, any time I wanted to, I couldn’t sleep, I would actually put that movie on, and I would go to sleep every single time. 

Andrew: Actually I was at a barbecue the other week with my brother, and Sev Trek came up, and he said, I showed that to the kids the other day. They loved it. My brother’s kids love it. It’s still bringing joy to people.

Vicki: He had to say that.

Andrew: I had to say that. I did it 15 years ago now, quite a while ago.

Vicki: Sixteen. It was before we were married.

Andrew: Sixteen.

Vicki: It was almost a deal-breaker.

Vashti: Well if a three hour Lord of the Rings is going to put you to sleep, you’ll be pleased to know that Cursed Child is actually two productions. There’s two shows, and each of them are about two and a half hours. 

Vicki: Yeah, nah, I don’t have that big an attention span.

Vashti: No.

Andrew: On the same day?

Vicki: I’m definitely the creative.

Vashti: So you can pick your days. So they generally have a matinee and an evening production on the weekends, or you can choose two evening productions that follow each other, or something like that. We have one last review to read, and it’s entitled, “Fun, informative and baby-brain friendly” and it’s five stars, from Chaotic Jingles. I love that name. Says, “What a fantastic podcast, answering common questions we all have about cloth nappies. Better yet, Vashti and Vicki are both mums as well, so they know first hand about all the fun that kids bring, including those lovely staining banana poops. I loved that it was short and sweet. Time-poor mum here with a short attention span”. Oh, she’s so us.

Vicki: She’s so on-trend for me.

Vashti: “Down to earth, informative and fun. I especially like the bloopers at the end. Now I’m going to…”

Vicki: The bloopers?

Vashti: Yeah, well that’s the first I’ve heard of that.

Andrew: [laughs]

Vashti: Oh, and here’s a little bit of product placement. Chaotic Jingles is now going to look up a Strucket as she feels like maybe she needs one of those in her life. 

Vicki: They’re actually pretty cool. 

Vashti: They are very awesome.

Vicki: I really need to actually, now my laundry is in…

Andrew: That’s that bucket thing you showed me, isn’t it?

Vashti: No.

Vicki: Strainer, meet bucket. It’s a strucket. 

Andrew: Right, OK.

Vicki: How many times did we hear Kelly say that? 

Vashti: Kelly has actually, she appeared on Innovation Australia, which is an ABC show over the weekend. Or a few weeks ago. She’s a finalist. The strucket has won so many awards. It is such an amazing product. We love it at Nest, absolutely love it. Actually, I’m nearly out of stock, I need to order some more, Kelly. 

Vicki: I think the only disadvantage is I suppose with any kind of container-y sort of thing is shipping. That is the only disadvantage.

Andrew: It’s big.

Vicki: No, it’s not that it’s big, it’s, you know, it’s bulky.

Vashti: It’s a large size, it’s bulky. It’s very, very light though. 

Vicki: But it’s like trying to, packing boxes fold down. A plastic bucket is not going to fold down.

Vashti: Or strucket. 

Vicki: Strucket, yes, is not going to fold down.

Andrew: Maybe she’d like to sponsor the show one day, because we’ve given her enough plugs.

Vashti: I think we might have to talk to Kelly about that. 

Andrew: The podcast is doing very well. We peaked at number 36 in kids and family. Which is pretty good. In New Zealand we peaked at 90. And two new countries. We’re now appearing in the top 100 in Singapore, we’re 90 in Singapore, and South Africa, we’re 60 in South Africa.

Vashti: Wow.

Vicki: Wow.

Andrew: So yeah, it’s slowly getting around the world, yes.

Vashti: It’s pretty awesome. Nice. 

Andrew: So today’s episode. It’s kind of, Vicki and Vashti are just back from Germany, for real this time, not like last time when we pretended they were back. And as you can see, they’re still friends.

Vashti: Just.

Andrew: Which is a good thing, after spending two weeks with each other. 

Vicki: It wasn’t that, it’s the plane flights. Like, it’s a long way. You don’t realise how long, and you just literally, you just want to go home. Just get me off this plane.

Vashti: The way over was 28 hours door to door, but the way back we were travelling for three days, pretty much.

Vicki: Because we thought we’d split it up.

Vashti: So we did like Croatia to Germany on the Thursday. And then on the Friday we went…

Vicki: The Friday afternoon, so we had all of this time, oh my gosh, just wanted to go home. I was like so close to tears so many times. I just want to go home, I just want to go home. 

Vashti: Even your phone, it had a little hissy fit, your phone, and it said that it was the power had gone, but then when you plugged it in, you had almost a full battery. And so I just remember looking at you going it’s OK, it’s OK, it will be OK.

Vicki: I just wanted to go home.

Vashti: Let’s get back to the hotel so you can plug it in.

Vicki: I think that’s just what happens the end of a holiday when you know that it’s coming, and then it was seven hours from Dusseldorf to Dubai, and like we stopped and had a shower and that sort of thing, but then that 14 hour trip home…

Andrew: The last leg.

Vicki: It’s awful. Even when you’re sleeping, you sleep for an hour and you wake up, are we not there yet? Are we not there yet? And then you arrive and it’s just awful.

Andrew: Next time I’m on a plane I’m going to push the little button to get the lady to come and I’m going to say, are we there yet? 

Vicki: I actually just really felt like Marge, you know Marge Simpson on that plane, get me off, get me off, get me off. That’s what it honestly felt like. So yeah.

Vashti: Well you did have the blue hair.

Vicki: I did, I did have the blue hair.

Andrew: That’s right. Is that why you had the blue hair, because you’ve got the last name of Simpson now?

Vicki: Maybe. My hairdresser didn’t want to do it because it goes green, as we can see. We did pink, purple and blue, and I think the purple lasted like two days. The pink is still there, but the blue is just hanging around like a bad smell.

Vashti: Looks pretty cool though. She got some really good looks in Germany. Everyone told her that she’d fit in. My goodness, yeah, no. No.

Vicki: No, no, no. 

Vashti: And I think anyone that we did see that had hair of a similar sort of colouring…

Vicki: Was pink. 

Vashti: But I don’t think they were locals, I think they were tourists as well.

Vicki: Yeah, yeah. I don’t know what we were kind of expecting. You expect, not that German people are progressive or anything like that. But they were a lot more conservative than I expected, that’s for sure. So yeah, did I stick out like dogs’ balls, like I did in China? Yeah, yeah, pretty much.

Andrew: That’s what you were going for, wasn’t it? 

Vashti: Sticking out like dogs’ balls?

Vicki: Well you know, my Mum saw my hair and she said, Honey, you don’t look like a C.E.O. You look like a teenager. Did you think before, and I didn’t, I just did it because it was Spring, and put some colour in my hair because you know, it’s Spring time. 

Vashti: And it’s fun, it is.

Vicki: But of course we went over to Autumn, so here I am with all my Spring clothes and all of that, and it’s like oh. It’s been cold here.

Vashti: Mind you, we were walking around in skirts and sandals. Well, you wore sandals.

Vicki: I wore sandals, until they broke. 

Vashti: But we were walking around in clothes that sort of…

Vicki: Weren’t appropriate for the weather. 

Vashti: Well they kind of worked, not really. But when you were inside you didn’t notice because everywhere is heated over there.

Vicki: The whole layering, that’s what we don’t do, OK, I’m not going to talk for people in Melbourne. In Brisbane, you do not layer. You’re pretty much just hot or cold, one or the other, and that’s the one thing I noticed in Germany is nobody’s ever cold. So they’d be all rugged up, whereas I’d be wearing short sleeves in 16 degrees, knowing that I was going inside in a few minutes, so I’d be warm. Whereas they tend to be dressed for the 16 degrees, and then have a coat on, and then take the coat off, and yeah, it’s just living in a different climate. I think we just put up with the extremes of temperatures, whereas they don’t see to. That seemed to be something they didn’t do in Germany.

Vashti: And there was cloak rooms everywhere, because everyone wore jackets. 

Vicki: Yeah, and everyone wore boots. I swear to God, on one day I was the only person in the whole of Germany wearing sandals. Because that was the day that I bought the hiking boots, I think.

Vashti: Yeah, that was our first day there.

Andrew: Because you wanted to fit in?

Vicki: No, because I was cold.

Vashti: But they were pink hiking boots that she’s been looking for.

Vicki: Do you remember how I went hunting for pink suede hiking boots, and I ended up with these retro blue kind of patchwork, really, really cool boots. I found my pink hiking boots while I was in Germany. 

Andrew: Cool, OK well before we turn into a travel show. So you both had goals going over there. Vicki, you went over there to find new retailers, and Vashti, you went over there to find new gadgets to bring back to your brand new store. 

Vashti: We did.

Andrew: Your brand new store is open. I forgot to mention, your brand new store is open.

Vashti: Yeah, my brand new store has been open for a while now.

Andrew: Yeah, it was open before you went. I haven’t been to it yet.

Vashti: Oh, you have to come. It’s gorgeous.

Andrew: Last time I saw it, it was a…

Vashti: Real estate.

Andrew: Real estate agent, yeah.

Vashti: Property management, property management.

Andrew: Did you get rid of them?

Vashti: I did, they’ve moved into our old store. We did a business swap.

Andrew: I can imagine. Honey, shall we buy this brand new house? I don’t know, Honey, we just came in here for nappies. 

Vashti: [laughs] That’s such a Dad joke. I’m only laughing because it’s so bad.

Andrew: You’re not actually laughing, you’re just sitting there, I’m actually putting a laughing track in.

Vashti: There you go. 

Vicki: Do you know who tells worse jokes than Andrew? Arabella. 

Vashti: Really?

Vicki: She takes after her father. Gosh, the jokes she comes out with, I swear she looks for the worst jokes on the internet. I’m sure that’s her Google search. 

Andrew: So what did you find?

Vashti: I found lots and lots of things. 

Andrew: Anything you’re allowed to mention yet?

Vashti: We’ve got one that’s in, we’ve got a few things. We brought back a few little bits and bobs that have gone out for testers. There’s one product I would love to mention, and I saw this…

Vicki: Maybe you should find out when the podcast is going to be released.

Andrew: November, this is November.

Vashti: Look, if this product goes ahead, it won’t be in store by the time this releases. This is probably, if it does come off, it won’t be until next year that we start stocking it.

Andrew: So watch the Nest Nappies Facebook page.

Vashti: Yeah, so this is…

Vicki: Is that the one, were they the guys that I dropped the C bomb to?

Vashti: Yeah. 

Vicki: Honestly, I’ll tell you the story. I won’t swear, don’t panic, I won’t swear. Anyway this guy, he was telling a story and he kept censoring himself. Now just remember, I can’t remember who was in the group, but it was all Aussies and Kiwis in this group.

Vashti: A couple of Americans.

Vicki: A couple of Americans and so these two guys were the head of an American company, and he kept censoring himself, saying F-ing this and stuff like that. And I turned around and I said, “Mate, you do realise that you’re talking to Aussies and Kiwis here? You can say, and I dropped the C bomb, and we won’t even care”. And I’ve never seen grown men so embarrassed. I think I actually crossed a line. I definitely crossed a line.

Vashti: The looks. This guy…

Vicki: And we were all drunk, by the way, just for the record, we were drinking a lot.

Andrew: So this wasn’t during the show?

Vicki: No, no, no.

Vashti: No, this was an cocktail event. So an after event. But this guy, he went bright red. Bright red. 

Vicki: It was hilarious.

Vashti: Then there was a woman there, who…

Vicki: I think she was a Kiwi though.

Vashti: But she was completely and utterly shocked. She’s like “Oh you can’t say that, oh my God, oh.” 

Vicki: The looks on the faces, and then everybody else was just like laughing.

Vashti: Kelly, and Jon and Liz and me, we were all just cracking up. We thought it was hilarious, especially their reactions.

Vicki: And then this other guy and I ended up chatting for like two hours.

Vashti: Something like that. 

Andrew: He probably felt comfortable with you.

Vicki: And he did not, he did not censor himself after that, funnily enough.

Vashti: But it was so funny, we rocked into that event, and we were with a couple of my suppliers that I knew. And I didn’t realise, you were a few people behind me, and you ended up on one edge of the group, and I was on the other. Then I suddenly turned around and realised that you were so far away and didn’t really know anyone. Oh crap, Vicki, I’ve left her with people she doesn’t know. But you were having a ball of a time. 

Vicki: Yeah, I’ll talk to anyone. Especially with a few wines in me. Actually I think it was a few vodkas. There was an awful lot of vodka consumed in the trip.

Vashti: Mind you, it was an all inclusive party. 

Vicki: They did some awesome food.

Vashti: Talk about the food later. But anyway the product, the product…

Andrew: You’re turning into a travel show. Stop turning this into a travel show.

Vashti: So the product that these guys stock is a nappy bag. The beautiful thing about this bag though, is it’s made from recycled ocean plastic. So all the material in it…

Vicki: That’s what I was talking about for two hours by the way, that really, really just hit my eco-heart.

Andrew: So what’s the situation, this is the plastic that comes up when they catch fish, is that what you’re saying? 

Vicki: Pretty much, yeah.

Vashti: Pretty much, they scoop it out of the ocean and recycle it into a fabric.

Vicki: Into a fibre. 

Vashti: So these bags are amazing. At the moment the hardware on the bag is brand new metals, but they’re working with their supplier to either use recycled metals or look at a way that they can recycle the ocean plastic into plastic hardware. So the idea is by, I think it’s 2021, that the bag will be from 100% recycled materials. The concept behind the business though started when Artie actually took his…

Vicki: You just gave out a name.

Vashti: I did, but that’s OK, the name doesn’t matter.

Andrew: I can beep it.

Vashti: No, it’s fine, but he took his daughter, they were out for dinner, and he took his daughter to change her nappy, and in America there’s no change tables in the men’s change rooms. In the men’s toilets. So he’s asked the restaurant manager, you know, where can I change my daughter? And the restaurant manager is just basically like, well there’s no change tables in there, the only change tables are in the women’s toilets and you can’t go there. So Artie ripped off his shirt, laid it down on the table in the restaurant and changed his daughter there, and then left the restaurant. But from that, it spawned this idea of this nappy bag with a built in change mat in it, and I am so impressed with the bag because the change mat can actually be removed, so that you can use the bag post baby.

Vicki: It’s actually not just like a pull out change mat that you get in just a random bag, which is just a flat kind of padded piece of thing. It is actually like…

Vashti: It’s attached to the…

Vicki: It’s almost like the table.

Vashti: And it folds out, and it’s got little flaps on the sides so your baby can’t roll over and everything… 

Vicki: It’s really cool.

Vashti: …like that, and it opens up so that you can get to everything in the bag. I was really, really impressed.

Vicki: It’s well designed. It’s really, really well designed.

Andrew: So it’s not just made of recycled stuff, but you actually liked the functionality of the bag.

Vashti: The functionality is great, absolutely great.

Andrew: Because sometimes you get things that are recycled, and the actual product is just a piece of crap.

Vashti: No, no.

Vicki: This was really well designed.

Vashti: Yep, well thought out. And they’ve put a lot of effort into it. And they’re constantly working on improving on it. I had a couple of really good long chats with them about it. And in the end, they gave me a bag to test. 

Andrew: Freebies.

Vashti: I did get a freebie, but it’s not for me. I will admit, I did use it as a cabin bag when we moved to Croatia, so I could test it out.

Vicki: That’s alright, I used Abbie’s bag that I bought her as a gift, as a cabin bag myself.

Andrew: Sh, don’t give that away. She might listen. 

Vicki: I don’t listen, you think our 15 year old is going to be listening?

Vashti: So I did test it out myself and I was really quite impressed with the usability and the functionality of it. It’s going out, well it will have gone out to one of our customers, so that they can actually test it as a nappy bag. So that will give us some feedback and once I know that it’s got the ability to, longevity, I suppose you could say, and that it does work really well, we’re going to look at bringing it in.

Andrew: Nice.

Vashti: Yes, so really, really impressed with them. But in line with that, one of the other brands that I saw, and I saw this quite regularly through a lot of the brands that I was looking at, is that there is this whole push to use recycled plastics and recycled materials. There’s a gift line and feeding line that I was looking at, it’s by a Danish company, and they use a lot of recycled plastic bottles and stuff like that. And they reduce their packaging, there’s very little packaging on their products. And it actually does say on the small amount of packaging, it says how many bottles went into making that product. So for a teething toy, which I know it sounds really weird, using recycled plastics for a teething toy, but it’s all sanitised and cleaned and everything.

Andrew: Does it taste like coke?

Vashti: No. But for a teething toy they would use 15, 600 ml water bottles or something like that, so it gives you an idea. But they make fabrics, and hard plastic and soft plastic feeding ware, and toys and stuff like that. And yeah, I’m looking into those as well, and we’ll give them a shot. And I just think, it’s just amazing that as a society we are looking at ways that we can reduce our impact on the environment, or utilise the things that are already being produced, rather than constantly producing new materials.

Vicki: Well plastic can only be recycled, it never, ever breaks down. And I was actually, I caught up with a manufacturer while I was there to discuss specifically recycled polyesters. And you know, the feasibility of actually doing that. I can’t give much away with that at all, because it may not come to fruition, because I know Top Spots do it.

Vashti: They do.

Vicki: It’s nowhere near as easy as it sounds. Actually making recycled fabrics and the products that Artie is making, it sounds so much easier than it really is.

Vashti: It’s a very difficult process.

Vicki: And that’s why it’s expensive. It’s why it’s incredibly expensive. It’s so much easier to create something from new. But certainly…

Vashti: But it’s exciting that there are companies out there that are spending the time on the research and the development and putting in that extra money to be able to produce a recycled product, rather than brand new materials. 

Vicki: Fixing a problem that is, and ocean waste is horrendous. Ocean plastic is horrendous, it’s a massive issue.

Vashti: And I think that’s what I loved about this bag, was that it was from recycled ocean plastic, not just plastic. Recycled ocean plastic. So they’re deliberately taking that waste out of the oceans.

Vicki: And they’re making it in an area that is notorious for it too. So it’s actually cleaning up an environment that has a massive problem there. And they’re taking basically rubbish and fixing it. Which is exciting. 

Vashti: And the fact that the bag, it can be used from birth all the way through.

Vicki: Well you used it as a cabin bag. You don’t have kids. Didn’t you just take the change mat out?

Vashti: I left the change mat in, but the change mat can be removed, I just left it in.

Vicki: And still be a perfectly functional bag. I didn’t get one. If you’re listening to this, Artie, I didn’t get one. 

Vashti: I’m going to send this to Artie and Luke. 

Andrew: Yeah, that just might be the bloopers at the back though. 

Vashti: But yeah, no, really, really impressed and really excited. Apparently there is…

Vicki: And the exciting part is actually talking to these people who are actually on the same page, that have the same ethics, that are not just in business to make money. Because certainly I find a lot of people that I talk to, it’s all about the money. Especially some of the contacts that I had. It was just all about the bottom line and the money but yeah, there’s so much more to the world and to life. You can run a business, you can make a profit, you can earn an income and still…

Vashti: Not compromise your ethics.

Vicki: Absolutely. You don’t have to be making millions of dollars. I think you can be happy. You know.

Vashti: That’s one of the things I liked about this company as well, is that Artie’s job prior to doing this was actually quite a high profile position, and he was earning some really, really good money.

Vicki: Good bucks.

Andrew: Was he a lawyer, was he?

Vashti: No, no.

Vicki: You can’t give away too much.

Vashti: I can’t tell too much. I’m being very careful about what I say. I’m sure people will start Googling and work it out, but…

Vicki: That’s why I didn’t mention a country, where they’re making it.

Vashti: But no, Artie had a very well paying job that he’s stepped back from to run this business.

Vicki: Because there’s more to life than money. There really is. 

Vashti: I’m pretty sure he’s taken a pay cut to do this, because this is something he’s passionate about.

Vicki: As a business owner, I can tell you know, he has absolutely taken a pay cut to follow a dream.

Vashti: His dream. And it’s a family business too, it’s him and one of his buddies, and their entire families are involved in it. And they’ve been really, really particular about the factories they’ve chosen, so it’s really ethically produced as well.

Vicki: Family run, smaller factories. And I think that’s why I really resonated so much with them, is because as I said, they’re on the same page. It’s actually about supporting the people that are making your products and actually caring about the production chain and stuff like that. But I still didn’t get a free bag. I would have given them a free nappy, if they have asked.

Vashti: We did have a play with the bag.

Vicki: We did.

Vashti: We got 14 candies in it. Was it 14?

Vicki: I don’t remember. I didn’t bring that many back, that’s for sure.

Vashti: No, well we decimated the rainbow plane with it, and then fixed the rainbow up again. But yeah…

Vicki: We got a fair whack in it.

Vashti: We got a huge amount of candies in there, and there was still room for bits and pieces in the side, and stuff like that. It’s pretty impressive.

Vicki: Which is unusual for nappy bags, they’re usually made for specifically disposable nappies. Because obviously cloth nappies take up a lot more room.

Vashti: And cloth nappies weren’t something that these guys thought about when they were making the bag. So it wasn’t even on their agenda.

Andrew: That’s disappointing, they were making recycled bag to carry plastic.

Vicki: Yeah, but you don’t know what you don’t know. You’ve got to remember that. Cloth is really only just started to explode now.

Vashti: And this is one of the other things, I was talking to one of my American suppliers over there, and he was saying how impressed he is with the percentage of people in Australia who use cloth nappies. And I’m like, what do you mean? And he said, well their per capita for cloth nappy use is only about 5% in America. Whereas here in Australia, what the latest survey had, up to 60% using them…

Vicki: Tried, tried.

Vashti: …tried them. Yeah. But on average, we had about 15 to 20% using them on a regular basis.

Andrew: But 5% of Americans is more than there are Australians. 

Vashti: Most definitely, yes.

Vicki: But they’ve still got the same amount of babies. 

Vashti: When you work it out on a percentage base…

Vicki: Five percent of babies are wearing cloth. 

Andrew: OK, cool.

Vashti: So it’s not like…

Vicki: Australia is a piss in the ocean. We’re a tiny, tiny country. We’ve got 23 million people.

Vashti: I think we’re 26, aren’t we?

Vicki: No. 

Andrew: No, I think we’re up to 24 actually.

Vashti: Twenty four. See, I need to go back to school.

Vicki: No, it keeps growing. Because everybody is still having one for the country. Which of course no international listener will understand that. We had a Prime Minister, was it John Howard?

Vashti: Yes.

Vicki: Yes, it was John Howard. Because the birth rate had dropped. So it was have one for mum, have one for dad, and have one for the country. So we have a lot of three child families now. Do you remember when it used to be literally two child families, and now three child families are more common?

Vashti: It’s the norm.

Vicki: Which I don’t know why, you’ve only got two hands, and two parents.

Vashti: Two parents.

Vicki: Don’t do it.

Vashti: No, don’t do it. Number three tips you over the edge.

Andrew: Don’t let the children outnumber the parents. 

Vicki: I don’t think our kids have actually realised that they do literally outnumber us and they could, what do they call it? The prisoners overtaking the prison or something. Mutiny, mutiny. It kind of feels like that some days.

Andrew: So I didn’t actually ask, what was the name of the show you went to again?

Vicki: Kind + Jurgen. 

Andrew: Excellent, I’m sure that will be excellent for the transcriber.

Vashti: It means child and baby or, it is the biggest baby show in the world. 

Andrew: Are you going back?

Vicki: Uh huh, yep.

Vashti: I want to go back.

Andrew: Excellent, OK, so we’ll get some more gadgets. Any more gadgets you want to talk about? Or that you’re allowed to talk about?

Vashti: A few that I saw. Lots of nappy brands from overseas that we don’t see here in Australia, and I brought a few of them back to send out with testers. We’ve got a couple out already with testers. 

Vicki: And I’m kind of kicking myself that I didn’t go and visit the other stands. I was really hesitant from the fact that I’m, I didn’t want people to think that I was spying on what they were doing. And this is where we found a lot of cultural differences. You know, it’s a typical Aussie thing to kind of just be friendly and kind of say hi because somebody is in the same industry, but I was really, really concerned with that being essentially a competitor.

Andrew: Well here in Australia, all you guys know each other.

Vashti: Most of us, yeah.

Vicki: We work together. But I just, I hadn’t done the ground work to make sure that they knew that that is why I would be coming up to say hi.

Andrew: Well you did also have some people who, like we’ve got the A.N.A. in Australia, some people say they want to start that in their country as well.

Vicki: In Germany, yeah. In Germany there’s a couple of consultants/advocates over there that are looking to create a similar sort of…

Vashti: Association.

Vicki: …association, and we kind of gave them a lot of pointers on how to start. I mean, it took forever to get the A.N.A.

Vashti: It took about three years.

Vicki: And it’s still hard now. Actually the A.G.M. would have been and gone by the time this has come up. But actually even getting people on board to do stuff. It’s like any volunteer organisation. Everyone has all the idea and want to do, we could do this, we could do that. But when it comes down to physically doing it, it’s really hard to find the people that are prepared to do the grunt work, because it is volunteer. I’ve been the president for three years, and I’m, hate to say it, but I’m hoping that someone will take it over because I’m so busy. And unfortunately that’s what everybody says. I’m so busy, I’m so busy. It’s like well I’m busy too, but it’s important that we do continue to advocate and educate the community, because that’s the only way that cloth nappy growth will continue to grow.

Andrew: And you get people asking you all the time, emailing you saying, how come this hasn’t been done? How come that hasn’t been done?

Vicki: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew: Basically we haven’t got a volunteer yet, do you want to help here?

Vicki: That is always my comeback. We don’t have anybody that has put their hand up, would you like to do it? Crickets. Every single time it’s crickets. But I’m one person, Vashti is one person. Within any volunteer organisation, once your kids get to school, the P&C is exactly the same. It is a core group of people that put their hand up to do the same things over and over. I remember running the jam stall at our fete three years in a row, making 700 odd jars of jam. And then having to say no. And I felt so bad that I said no, because nobody ended up doing it that year at all. But there comes a point where it’s like you know what? I have actually done my time. I’ve given everything that I can, and it’s somebody else’s turn.

Andrew: I’ve done my sentence. It’s time to get somebody else.

Vicki: That’s exactly right, so I’m hoping someone will take over the president’s role. It’s actually not a difficult role. It’s a lot of delegating, but a lot of follow up, and a lot of, you know…

Andrew: Work.

Vicki: Yeah, it is. It’s not a lot of physical work, it’s a lot of follow up and a lot of constantly being on the ball.

Vashti: Contactable.

Vicki: And being the one that cops, you literally have to put your hand up and say yeah, no, that was my decision. I had the final say on that. Good and bad things.

Vashti: The buck stops with the president. 

Vicki: Absolutely. Always the bad things, so you have to be prepared to put your hand up and say well, you know what? I know this is an unpopular choice that I’ve made, but it had to be made for these reasons, and I’ll put my hand up and say yeah, I made that choice.

Vashti: But you don’t make those choices on your own, you make them with the support and guidance of the people who’ve been working on that project and the rest of the board members. And you take, under advisement, everything that those people have said, and then you make the final decision. 

Vicki: Like cancelling the cloth nappy award. That was a classic example of it wasn’t my decision. It was…

Vashti: It was pretty much unanimous.

Vicki: …I was pushing not to make this decision. Please don’t do this, please don’t. But with all of the information that was gathered, we had no choice. 

Vashti: But that was a pretty unanimous decision amongst the board members…

Vicki: It was.

Vashti: …that there wasn’t another way that we could have gone forward with that.

Vicki: And also when we put the information to the members as well. You know what? At the end of the day, it was pretty much, it was obvious what the decision had to be, but I was the one that had to say uh huh, I’ve put my hand up for this. And it’s hard. 

Andrew: Can I ask why the cloth nappy awards were cancelled this year?

Vicki: There was just data integrity issues. More than anything, we could not, we put it out to multiple third party I.T. people…

Vashti: Organisations.

Vicki: …yeah, organisations, to actually try and verify the data. We tried to recoup what we could, and there was just no way that, because at the end of the day, I had to put my, well the board had to put their stamp of approval and go yep, these are the results, this is what the public has voted. And at the end of the day, we couldn’t. Not one person that we outsourced that to was prepared to say yeah, that’s legit. So we just had some integrity issues. But what we’ve done is we’ve learned from that. We’ve learned that we’ll use a different format, rather than just…

Vashti: On our website.

Vicki: Yeah, yeah we’ll actually host it like on Google forms or something similar to that. 

Vashti: That will give us a lot more…

Vicki: See everything has to be, because it’s a volunteer organisation, each and every one of us…

Vashti: Has a vested interest.

Vicki: …have a vested interest. So underlying it all, it was making me feel sick, because I was even talking to our solicitor about it. I had a conflict. And I kept putting it back to her. I can’t answer this because I have a conflict. I have a vested interest in this, so I can’t answer these questions. I can’t be the one to make this decision, because it doesn’t just affect me, it affects everybody. So we have definitely learned from this process, and we’ll probably bring the awards closer to the beginning of the year rather than the middle of the year. But I feel sorry for the likes of Leanne from Baby Beehinds, who puts hour and hours and hours into the running of the award. Like for months, this goes on for months.

Vashti: The organisation, the planning, the sponsorship. All the graphics and all the designs and the emails that go out. There’s so much work.

Vicki: The awards…

Vashti: Leanne normally starts on the awards, which are run in July, around about…

Vicki: About March or April.

Vashti: Yeah, March, she first started putting stuff together. 

Vicki: So it’s a hugely disappointing outcome for everybody. Especially Leanne, I really felt really bad for her. But you know, it is what it is, and you learn from your mistakes, I guess. 

Andrew: So before the podcast started, we were talking about advocates over there. You came across a lot of advocates for cloth nappies.

Vicki: That was a German, it was very much a German kind of, that was the way they did it in Germany. 

Vashti: And Netherlands. 

Vicki: Oh, was it?

Vashti: Yeah, there was quite a few Netherland advocates as well. So Holland. Because that’s reasonably close there as well. So quite a few of them that we spoke to were from there. But very German based.

Andrew: And what do they do?

Vicki: They pretty much, it’s like one on one consults. Usually in somebody’s home.

Andrew: So they come around, show you cloth nappies.

Vicki: The one thing I didn’t get to really ask, I suppose I didn’t think to ask, is how they get those contacts. Where the start is. I actually don’t know how they get to being in the house. I didn’t ask that. I was just fascinated with the process. Because different countries do things differently, obviously. It was just oh wow, oh wow, they just do like a lot of one on one consults. They just bring all of the nappies over and discuss different options. But I never, ever asked that question. So I’ll have to ask Sarah. I can’t actually fill the whole story in, and I’ve only just thought about it then. I don’t know that happens, whether it’s a Google ad, or how they get to there. But there’s generally consultants in different towns.

Andrew: They probably just something like they’re in their version of the Yellow Pages or something.

Vicki: Maybe, yeah.

Vashti: Or the internet.

Vicki: Or Facebook groups.

Andrew: They have the internet too?

Vashti: Yeah. 

Vicki: Remember what I said about Australia being a piss in the ocean? 

Vashti: Remember what you said about bad jokes? 

Vicki: Yeah, yeah.

Andrew: I’m curious, because it actually came up in, when I read the reviews, because I read them all. Somebody actually said in a review, that she’s so glad for the podcast because her mother was absolutely no help, because modern cloth nappies didn’t exist when her mother was doing cloth nappies. She was just doing, she can help obviously with the flats and everything like that, but couldn’t help with modern cloth nappies.

Vashti: We get that a lot at Nest, where new parents come in, and they’ve got their parents with them, or their mum with them, so the grandma’s sitting there going well no, I used flats, so I can teach you how to fold a flat. And they’ll actually pull a flat out and fold it there on the counter and they haven’t folded one for 30 years.

Andrew: That’s because they’ve done 10,000.

Vashti: But…

Vicki: It’s actually six, but anyway.

Vashti: I had a grandma in yesterday. Mum’s on the Sunshine Coast and grandma was in Brisbane for something else, and actually dropped in, walked out with half a dozen brand new nappies for her daughter and grandchild, and she’s just like, I’m just so overwhelmed because I’m used to flats. And I don’t understand this. So quite a few times she rang her daughter and passed the phone over to me, and we were chatting on the phone. But we came up with a good little stash for her to try. A few different things. But yeah, it is very overwhelming for grandparents, because it’s not something they’re used to. It’s slowly changing, I’m slowly starting to get a couple of younger grandparents through that are aware of what’s going on, because modern cloth was starting to emerge, just as they were nearing the end of their cloth nappy journey. But yeah, it’s definitely not something that…

Vicki: It’s like anything. My Dad died 25, 26 years ago, something like that, and sometimes I often think, what has actually changed in the last 25, 26 years? And when you think about it, I remember we had a microwave, so I think microwave technology was fairly new about 25 odd years ago. But you look at just, we had an old Commodore computer. You look at the technology that’s come through, like iPads and iPhones, all of that sort of stuff. And older generations do struggle with that as well, because it’s not, it’s all new.

Vashti: You think, when we were at high school there was no, I know when I went to high school we actually had a typing class, where we used old school typewriters that you had to actually sit there and press the keys really hard and back space…

Vicki: Gosh no, we had electronic ones. 

Vashti: We had the old one.

Vicki: How old are you?

Andrew: I didn’t do that course because I thought that I’ll never need to use a keyboard.

Vicki: We had a computer lab in our school.

Vashti: We had a computer lab, but you had to be doing specific classes to be able to get into that computer lab, and it wasn’t just for anyone to go. Now I look at my kids going through and they’ve all got their own devices for each class, and there’s also computers in the library, and they have their computer labs as well. And if they’ve got a free period, then they can go down to the computer lab and type up their assignments. Or if they’re working in the library after school, they can just go in and use the computers. My five year old can use an iPad better than me, some days. So the kids have grown up with this technology. My kids would have no idea what a cassette is. 

Vicki: That’s right yeah.

Andrew: Yes, they would. They’re coming back. I read an article the other day, just like records, cassette tapes are coming back too.

Vashti: Really? Do you remember when you actually had to break the little tab off, because you didn’t want anyone to record over your cassette, or you’d be sitting there listening to the radio and waiting to press record, and you’d always miss the first two seconds of the song that you wanted. Or you’d get the disc jockey talking over the beginning of the song. And it’s like dammit, now I need to go back and find the song again. 

Andrew: You know that’s illegal, don’t you?

Vashti: Whoops. Don’t tell anyone. I’m sure the Statute of Limitations has expired. 

Andrew: That’s right, mine’s definitely expired on cassette tapes. 

Vicki: I’m pretty sure that’s an American thing. 

Andrew: That’s right, Copyright Law I Australia is forever.

Vicki: OK, even as far as pausing live T.V. that is something that, we used to have to run to the T.V. Everything is on demand. I think of all the little things that we really take for granted, power steering in cars, air conditioning, standard in cars and stuff like that.

Vashti: There’s no winding windows down. Press a button now.

Vicki: No, press a button. All of these things over the last 25 years, I wonder what my Dad would think if he was still around today.

Vashti: I think he’d be pretty impressed with what you’ve done with cloth nappies.

Vicki: Probably. Probably. My brother, here’s a story…

Andrew: No, run out of time.

Vicki: No, no. I’ve worked through this, I’m not angry at him any more. I bought a new Mac, and I’d spent, how much was it? two and a half grand.

Andrew: It was four grand.

Vicki: It was not, I do not spend that much on a computer, it was two grand.

Andrew: Sorry, that was mine.

Vicki: Whatever. And my brother, it was a MacBook, which I still have, and I’m still  using a couple of years later, thank you very much. And my brother actually replied to my post on Facebook and said, why would you need a computer like that? All you do is a bit of bookkeeping. And I was horrified. I was absolutely horrified that he thought my business was a little bit of bookkeeping, and it took my quite some time to work out what, underlying issues and all of that, because I didn’t have my Dad to say I’m proud of what you’ve built. But trust me, every time he comes anywhere near the place, I rub his face in it. Oh, can you see my little bit of bookkeeping down here, Steve? Can you see these staff that are doing a little bit of bookkeeping, Steve?

Andrew: I bring him to the warehouse. This is where we keep all our paperwork. How big is this warehouse?

Vicki: I don’t know.

Andrew: We need a 500 square foot warehouse now to store all the bookkeeping you do.

Vicki: That’s right, all the bookkeeping. 

Andrew: And you see these people down here in the warehouse? They’re just running around putting…

Vicki: Paperwork away.

Andrew: Bookkeeping in a bag for people. So we’ve called you out, Steven.

Vicki: Siblings, siblings, don’t you just love it?

Andrew: So any other things you’d like to say? Because we’ve almost been going an hour now.

Vicki: Probably.

Vashti: I will say…

Vicki: German food.

Vashti: Oh yeah. 

Vicki: But can I tell you, I have to say…

Andrew: Stop turning it into a travel show.

Vicki: No, no, I’m going to put it out there. The food in Germany was amazing. Croatia. Not going to lie, I was a little disappointed. I was a lot disappointed. 

Vashti: Actually, yes.

Vicki: In particular the wine.

Vashti: Except for the truffle fries.

Vicki: No, the truffle fries were awesome. Can I tell you, the truffle mayo that I brought back is not as good as I remembered there?

Andrew: I almost threw up when I tasted it.

Vashti: Oh really?

Andrew: It’s disgusting.

Vicki: No, it’s not as nice as what we had.

Vashti: I put it through my potato salad the other night. It’s actually really nice through a potato salad.

Vicki: Oh nice. But the wine, I was really surprised. Croatia known for grapes, figs and olives. I did try an olive and I hate olives…

Vashti: And lavender.

Vicki: …and I spat it out, I could not eat it, I tried it. But the wine, I was really disappointed in the wine that I tasted.

Andrew: Is it made out of olives?

Vicki: Maybe.

Vashti: See, I didn’t mind it, there was a couple that I wasn’t overly impressed with, but we drank more cocktails in Croatia than wine.

Vicki: I think we spend the whole entire three days…

Vashti: There was actually little stalls on the promenade where you could get cocktails to go. Cocktails to go.

Vicki: You know, the most…

Andrew: You’re allowed to walk around with alcohol?

Vicki: Yes.

Vashti: Yes, there was people walking around. In Germany there was people, you walk to the 4 Square, like the convenience store across the road, just a tiny little convenience store, hole in the wall, and we bought…

Vicki: They had half the shop was alcohol.

Vashti: Yeah, we bought wine, and what did you buy? You bought a vodka or something, didn’t you? 

Vicki: No, I think it was cider.

Vashti: Cider, I don’t know. And then we went and sat up on the terrace and had a couple of drinks and watched the stars.

Vicki: No, no, I think it was vodka and…

Vashti: A vodka tinny.

Andrew: Watched the stars…

Vicki: So then I went back down and got another one.

Andrew: Watched the stars, what’s that metaphor for, watching stars? The real stars, or the stars you get from the alcohol? 

Vashti: No. But what I will say is going to that trade show did put in perspective just how small we are here in Australia.

Vicki: We’re tiny.

Vashti: Like our baby expos that we do here, our consumer expos, I’m not even talking about, this was purely a business to business expo, it was not a retail expo. Our retail expos here in Australia would be about a quarter of the size of one of those floors. The hall we were in had three floors, and there were three separate halls, with two or three floors each. It was just…

Andrew: Just business to business.

Vashti: It is just business to business. It is worldwide, it was absolutely incredible. And the other thing that really threw us was the OH&S. Or lack thereof.

Vicki: We walked in there, I kid you not, to set up, and no safety jackets, OK I understand…

Vashti: Open toe shoes.

Vicki: …Australia is very much kind of like a nanny country. There were babies and kids running around, and the forklift drivers [quack quack] they barely even beeped. 

Vashti: They were flying down the aisles and squealing to a stop and racing around the corner, almost skidding around the corner.

Vicki: With no safety jackets, and kids on the floor. 

Vashti: And cigarettes hanging out of their mouth as well.

Vicki: Do you know what, the one thing I really struggled with the smoking.

Vashti: We went to a pub one night, and you’re like let’s sit outside. No, no, they’re smoking out there.

Vicki: But everyone, it’s just, you don’t realise how much it’s just stopped in Australia, the external smoking.

Vashti: But we sat inside and there was a window right above, a window open right above where they were smoking, so smoke was coming inside the restaurant area anyway.

Vicki: It’s like you couldn’t escape it. Like just walking down the street, literally. And as a reformed smoker, I noticed it way more than a non-smoker would. I just felt like I couldn’t escape it. It was really, yeah. Really hard to…

Andrew: OK, I think we’ll end it on a…

Vicki: On a smoking note. 

Vashti: Pretty amazing.

Vicki: Just don’t smoke, isn’t that you, or Brenno? Just don’t smoke. 

Vashti: Pretty awesome. Definitely looking forward to going back.

Vicki: And both beautiful countries. 

Andrew: Thank you Vicki.

Vicki: Thanks Andrew.

Andrew: Thank you Vashti.

Vashti: Thanks, Andrew.

Andrew: Bye everybody. 


Andrew: Vicki Simpson is a wife and mother to three children, President of the Australian Nappy Association and owner and founder of Bubblebubs. Vicki has been making and selling cloth nappies through her website for 15 years. Bubblebubs is now one of the most recognised and awarded cloth nappy brands in Australia, and is currently expanding to other countries. You can find out more and contact her through her website, Vashti Wadwell is mother to three children and has been using cloth nappies for 13 years. She is the owner of Australia’s first cloth nappy store, Nest Nappies, located in Brisbane, Australia. She can be contacted through her website, If you would like to give us feedback, go to If you are finding this podcast helpful, the way to thank us is to leave feedback in the iTunes store or wherever you listen to podcasts. I am your host, Andrew Simpson. 


Vashti: I need to pee.

Andrew: That’s going in the out…

#47 Nappy Leaks Live October 2019

Following on from the success of our previous Live Podcast, we decided to do another one! Caitlyn is our special guest for this month’s Q+A. Caitlyn is mum to Hugo, he is a gorgeous energetic 14-month-old who has starred in several Bubblebubs videos. She asks Vashti and Vicki about encouraging other parents to try cloth, the expected lifespan of cloth nappies and whether using different brands as baby grows and changes shape is normal?

This Nappy Leaks episode is recorded in front of a live studio audience… and by “live studio audience” we mean in the Bubblebubs warehouse with an audience that was 50% babies! But we all had a great time and it was good to be able to pick Vashti and Vicki’s brains in person.

Continue reading…

#46 How to switch to cloth nappies late and is it worth it.

Vashti and Vicki discuss the adjustments that need to be made to switching later. A lot of parents who switch later and pregnant with another child and want to start with the toddler to dip their toes, this is a great way to approach it so it’s second nature before you’re in the newborn haze. The other advantage is once your child is 12 or 18 months old usually parents have started to find their feet and are less overwhelmed so it’s a good time to try something new. You can change as much or as little as you want, trying cloth wipes is a great first step. Listen to the full podcast to learn more about transitioning to using cloth nappies with an older baby or toddler.

Continue reading…

Nest Nappies is hiring!


Retail Sales Assistant / Social Media Manager

 Nest Nappies is uniquely placed as one of the Industry Leaders in cloth nappy retail, advocacy and advice.  The success of our business lies with the people who work with us, people who have a passion for helping others love cloth nappies as much as we do!  We have built our name on our unique, caring service, exceptional knowledge and the high quality nappies and baby carriers we sell. 

We are currently seeking a Casual Retail Sales Assistant and Social Media Manager for our Paddington store.

Ultimately, we would like these two roles to be filled by the one person; however, we are committed to finding the right fit and are happy to split the role if required. 

In Retail Sales Assistant role you will be required to confidently approach customers, respond to their questions and work towards opening and closing sales. You will be expected to trouble shoot, offer product suggestions, build ongoing customer relationships and effectively work towards meeting sales targets, with limited supervision.  In addition you will be responsible for maintaining a high level of presentation within the store, including light cleaning duties and appropriate visual merchandising.  Training will be provided on our Point of Sale program, which runs from a Mac operating system. 

In the Social Media Manager role, you will need to have a thorough knowledge of Social Media platforms and be able to effectively navigate them to effectively promote Nest Nappies.  Training will be provided and there is scope for additional courses to be provided to increase skill sets.

To be successful in this role, you will need to demonstrate that you are;

  • Enthusiastic, flexible and reliable
  • A natural relationship builder
  • Able to use your creativity to present our merchandise and premises to the highest standard
  • Confident in techniques used to generate sales
  • Confident in making decisions and able to work independently
  • Able to navigate a computer system confidently
  • Able to draw on personal experiences with cloth nappies to advocate, promote, sell and problem solve
  • Have a thorough knowledge of Social Media platforms

This is a casual position, with the required days being every Saturday for the Retail Sales Assistant and negotiable days for the Social Media Manager.  We pride ourselves on being a family and breastfeeding friendly workplace, however it is no longer viable for children to be bought to the shop during working hours.   We are looking for someone who is prepared to make an ongoing commitment to the future direction of Nest Nappies.

You will be employed as a Level 3 Retail Assistant and remunerated at the applicable National Retail Industry Award rate (MA5000004).  Superannuation and an appealing Staff Discount are included in the remuneration package.  As a small team we require a certain level of flexibility regarding lunch breaks and covering other staff during holiday periods or in times of sickness.  Training will be undertaken over a 4 week period with an additional 4 week probationary period at its completion. 

To apply for this position, please email a copy of your Resume along with a covering letter telling us a little bit about yourself, including your experience with cloth nappies, and also about a time you managed to avert a crisis.
Address applications to Vashti Wadwell ( by close of business Friday 18th of November 2019.

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#45 Nappy Leaks Live Sep 2019

Nappy Leaks is recorded in front of a live studio audience. I always wanted to say that, but I do have a few corrections. We were not in a studio we were in the office of Bubblebubs and the studio audience was 18 and 50% of those were babies. But it was fun doing this series of live show were the audience asked Vicki and Vashti all the questions.

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#44 Troubleshooting Cloth Nappy Leaks

This week the ladies started by discussing heavy wetters but the discussion veers into leaks. Leaks can be caused by a variety of things and the ladies go into a few of those ways and how to fix them. Most children go through stages of heavy wetting at various times through their development but some children definitely do produce more urine generally than other children. For children like this fitteds, flats and pre-folds are a great option for extra boosting.

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Nappy Leaks Podcast: Questions and Answers Live July

Nappy Leaks is recorded in front of a live studio audience. I always wanted to say that, but I do have a few corrections. We were not in a studio we were in the office of Bubblebubs and the studio audience was 12 and 50% of those were babies. But it was fun doing this series of live show were the audience asked Vicki and Vashti all the questions.

Continue reading…

#43 Nappy Leaks Live August 2019

Nappy Leaks is recorded in front of a live studio audience. I always wanted to say that, but I do have a few corrections. We were not in a studio we were in the office of Bubblebubs and the studio audience was 18 and 50% of those were babies. But it was fun doing this series of live show were the audience asked Vicki and Vashti all the questions.

Continue reading…

Podcast #40 Toilet Training On A Schedule

Our guest is Jenna, she has just gone through toilet training which she booked 12 days on the calender. Vashti and Vicki grill Jenna on how she toilet trained her son in just 12 days.

Transcript: Toilet Training On A Schedule

Andrew: Welcome to Nappy Leaks with Vicki Simpson and Vashti Wadwell. How are you doing, Vashti?

Vashti: Good thanks Andrew, how are you today?

Andrew: Excellent. Vicki, how are you doing?

Vicki: Yeah good, how are you Andrew?

Andrew: Not too bad. And we’ve got a guest. Anybody want to guess who the guest is?

Vashti: Shock horror, I wonder who it could be?

Andrew: It’s Bunnicas. We know who’s in the room, nobody else knows who’s in the room.

Vicki: People can make educated guesses.

Vashti: Hi Jenna.

Jenna: Hello.

Andrew: How are you doing Jenna?

Jenna: You missed an opportunity, you could have asked me how I was first and pissed both of them off.

Andrew: Yeah true, it’s an even episode so Vashti gets it. Vashti gets evens, Vicki gets odds.

Jenna: I like that you’ve had to develop a system. 

Andrew: That’s right, otherwise they fight. Disposable nappies win every time.

Jenna: Yes, we don’t want that. 

Vashti: That’s still a crappy joke [laughter].

Jenna: And that’s even worse. 

Andrew: It’s funny, having a dig at it gets more laughs than the actual joke.

Jenna: We used to have a term for that at our old office called Shane-ing, when the person telling the joke is more funny than the actual joke itself because they can’t get it out, or someone else makes it come back. It’s much funnier than the joke. It’s called Shane-ing. Guess who it was named after?

Andrew: I like that.

Vashti: Shane?

Jenna: He was not a funny guy. 

Vicki: We could call it Andrew-ing.

Jenna: Andrew-ing? We can call it Andrew-ing from now on, makes a bit more sense. 

Vicki: Because he aint a funny guy. 

Jenna: It’s a Dad joke, he’s meant to make horrible jokes, it’s his job.

Vicki: He is, and he’s very good at it. 

Jenna: See?

Andrew: That’s the only reason I’m here.

Jenna: You’re killing it. 

Vashti: No, you do the tech stuff as well. We’ll keep you around for that.

Jenna: And he’s got the really good podcast velvet voice when you listen to it.

Andrew: No, I’ve told you before, that’s an effect.

Jenna: Well can the rest of us have it?

Andrew: Very expensive software that does that for me. 

Vicki: Did I pay for it?

Jenna: Shh, she can hear, she can hear. 

Andrew: So what did you guys think of that live day we did a little while ago now? Remember that?

Vashti: Yeah, that was awesome.

Andrew: Did you like that?

Vicki: It was a lot of fun. I’m having flashbacks to…

Jenna: I was going to say, Vicki had a small emotional problem.

Vicki: Yeah, that was a very emotional day where I had…

Jenna: I got to be Vicki.

Vicki: I had to go to bat for my daughter.

Andrew: Good news is, she’ll be in her new school by then. 

Vicki: And the nose piercing will be out. The irony of all of it.

Jenna: I remember stealing a lot of newborns that day. 

Vashti: You did.

Jenna: I was finally getting a little less scared of the whole second kid thing and I was just like sniff this baby, sniff this baby. I was like here, I’ll hold it. I got vomited on by two or three kids, it was great. 

Andrew: Yeah, I asked you to send me some pictures of the day and every picture you sent me was you holding a baby.

Vicki: Yeah, and she wore the same jeans the next day. That had vomit on them, remember?

Jenna: No, no, no, that’s a bit, that did happen but it’s a video you’re thinking of. No, I didn’t wear them the next day. Andrew said aren’t you going to go, so we were recording a video and I got vomited on, and Andrew looked at me and said aren’t you going to go home and change? And I was like, no. Why would I? It didn’t even occur to me. What was the point in that? I’ve walked around with a lot more vomit on me before. Never had a job I got thrown up on before. 

Vashti: It’s a new experience. Wait until you get pooped on. 

Andrew: Maybe at this one, because we’re going to have another live on. Tuesday the 30th of July is our live podcast. So on to today’s subject.

Vicki: Hear that Mum? Please don’t book anything for Tuesday the 30th. No appointments. That would be nice.

Jenna: Oh also my Mum, if you could not do that so you can look after my child, that would be great. 

Andrew: And you know what? We know they listen too, because they’re the three listeners we’ve got. 

Vicki: That’s right.

Jenna: No joke, my Dad has listened to the podcast. I made him. You know when you said, I did Episode 6 or 8 or something or other, and there’s this real spike, and it’s because I forced everyone I know to listen to it. My Dad listened to an entire podcast about cloth nappies.

Andrew: Episode 6 is the third most listened to episode.

Jenna: Yeah, because I share it all the time, because whenever people ask about travelling with cloth, it’s an easy one to send them.

Andrew: Listen to what I say, that’s what you say isn’t it?

Jenna: Yeah, just do what I tell you to. 

Andrew: So today, the reason Jenna is here is because Jenna blocked out some time on her calendar to toilet train her son.

Jenna: And she’s been copping crap for it too.

Andrew: That’s right, copping, like Michael Hyde is one of my favourite authors and he says, “The most memorable things will not be something you check off a to do list.”

Jenna: That’s everything, I put everything on a to do list. What do you not… what you need to understand, dear listener, is that Andrew and Vicki are anarchists.

Vicki: No, we’re not, we’re yin and yang. Andrew is completely different to me. 

Jenna: He still makes fun of my love of organisation. 

Vicki: You two are the organised ones. I’m the completely just…

Vashti: No, no, that’s not true. 

Jenna: Does that sound believable, Andrew?

Andrew: Don’t worry, I can sound it so it sounds more believable later.

Jenna: Good, good, that filter is really good. 

Vicki: But see Andrew just follows my lead. I think that’s probably…

Jenna: That’s absolutely right, you talk about it all the time, surrounding yourself with complementary people. I haven’t got the constant push forward, that constant drive you have, all the coming up with the ideas and stuff. I’m not that person. But I can take the idea and do work with them. Do stuff with them. Shh Andrew.

Vicki: And see even I didn’t swear before. 

Andrew: I’m going to beep you out.

Jenna: You can bleep me. I’ll try and keep it…

Vashti: She did correct herself.

Jenna: I did immediately correct myself.

Andrew: I might put a duck sound in, just to be…

Jenna: That’s a lot more discouraging than a beep, because a beep is kind of cool. It’s very rap, whereas the duck sound is not great.

Vashti: Do a moo, a cow. 

Jenna: That’s discouraging. That’s discouraging. Don’t give him ideas.

Andrew: And so I don’t have to pay anybody for the moo sound, I’ll just say it myself. 

Jenna: Now you’ve just got to keep up with it and do it live. 

Andrew: So…

Vicki: And that would be funny, so now you have to do it again. [laughter]

Andrew: So onto the subject.

Jenna: What are we doing?

Andrew: How did you toilet train your son?

Jenna: Magic.

Andrew: How many days, you blocked out 12 days?

Jenna: I blocked out 12 days. I’d seen around all the Facebook groups and the Mummy groups and all those things. I’d seen the Oh Crap Potty Training book recommended a lot by Jamie, I do not know how to pronounce her last name. It starts with a G and it’s got a lot of letters in it. And so I read that book when we were away in the Philippines.

Vicki: We’ll put that in the show notes. Not. Does anything ever go in the show notes?

Jenna: It does. I do it all. 

Andrew: No, the show notes now are just…

Vicki: Hey Siri, send a text message to Jenna to remember to put stuff in the show notes.

Andrew: Oh no, you’re breaking a podcast rule, you’re not allowed to say…

Siri: OK.

Andrew: …the thing word. Because everybody’s device at home will now be trying to send Jenna a message [laughter].

Vicki: Sorry, not sorry. What if I asked Alexa? 

Vashti: Or Google. Hey Google, order…

Jenna: OK, so I read that book while we were away, much to the amusement of all the childless people who were on a kind of group holiday for someone’s wedding and everyone’s relaxing by the pool, and they kept looking over at my toilet training book and laughing at my life.

Vicki: You were secretly laughing too, weren’t you. Or were you sobbing?

Jenna: I was laughing. A little bit of both. Probably laughing, I embraced it. I am super cool. And we…

Andrew: So no guys came up to you while you were reading this book?

Jenna: No, no. Oddly enough, no. You don’t get hit on a lot when you’ve got a two year old on top of you. 

Andrew: Not even when you’re reading a book, he was reading it as well, was he?

Jenna: Most of the time. You can’t actually ditch them. They’re not as old as your kids. You can’t just leave them alone.

Andrew: We’ve done that from birth. 

Vicki: Shh, you’re not meant to tell people.

Andrew: It’s alright, they’re grown up now.

Vicki: And they’re not at all screwed up at all.

Jenna: I think we all screw our kids up. The idea is to try and do it in a really unique way that other people haven’t screwed up their kids. Try and find a really different, for instance accidentally teach your child that sharks eat penises. That’s a really good one to do. 

Andrew: Really?

Jenna: It did not say not to do that in any of the books I read. 

Andrew: So he won’t go in the ocean now?

Jenna: No, no, just little plastic sharks. I tried to get it to eat his toe once and he grabbed it. He’s like no Mummy, penis shark. And tried to eat his penis with the shark. I said oh, I’ve broken him already. And Vashti, spot the person who’s heard this story 600 times. Vicki’s just sitting there calmly.

Andrew: I want to see you go to Sea World. [inaudible, laughing 09:17]

Vicki: Penis shark, doo doo doo doo doo doo. Penis shark, doo doo doo doo doo doo.

Jenna: Every mother out there now hates us because we’ve got that song in our head. What were we talking about? Toilet training?

Andrew: You blocked out 12 days.

Jenna: So we looked on our calendars and we blocked out, we decided to keep him, he goes to family day care two days a week, and we decided to keep him home for a week. So we started the day after he goes to day care, so Saturday all the way through to the next Wednesday. So 12 days we blocked out on the calendar to just focus on toilet training and just do that and life revolved around that a little bit. We were giving him the best support we could to give him the most success. So we did the first three days of toilet training completely nude. Which he was thrilled about. In winter, not great timing, we just ran the heater. 

Vicki: In Queensland.

Jenna: In Queensland, yep.

Vicki: Because it’s 20 degrees.

Jenna: Have you been in our house? It’s an icebox.

Vicki: Queensland houses are freezing. Absolutely freezing.

Jenna: I overdress all the time, I’m currently wearing a jumper and I’m way overdressed for where we are right now because my house is freezing and I forget that. So he was naked for three days, which he thought was brilliant. He’s never had so much access to his penis. That was interesting for all of us.

Vicki: Neither has his shark.

Jenna: Neither has his shark. Little boys are lot of fun when they’ve got access to their penis. I heard the words “Mummy, penis too big” a lot. And had to try and explain if you want it to go small again you’ve got to stop touching it.

Andrew: Words you’ll never hear again.

Jenna: His Dad did think it was a bit funny. He did really good. The morning of the first day he started, he was crouching down on the mat trying to do something and he started to do a poo. He jumped up on his own, before we could get to him, ran over to the potty and finished it on the potty. So we were pretty proud. Day one, he was ready. As Vicki says, he was ready. He knew what to do. We would have toilet trained him sooner if it wasn’t for the trip. I didn’t want to take a newly toilet trained kid overseas on the plane. That seemed like a horrible idea. So we did that for the first three days. Then the book recommends going commando, so they forget the muscle memory of having something on their butt and thinking that they can poop in it or pee in it. So he went, we did commando. We started and I put tights on him without really thinking about it. Every time we put them on for the first two days he pooped and I was like what the heck is happening? You were doing so good. But I don’t want to end up with you only naked toilet trained. And then I reread the section in the book and it made a real point to say baggy clothes. So I switched the tights out for some baggy track pants and it was much better. So I really do think that that muscle memory thing has a good point. In the book she says that she recommends, she used to say if you can, commando for a month is a good idea, but now she’s moved to thinking it’s really integral. Integral to do. So that’s what she recommends. We’re actually starting underwear this weekend. First time, first undies this weekend. So we’ll see if we take a backward step or how he goes from there.

Vicki: I think he’ll be fine. We did it in three days with all the kids.

Jenna: He’s doing so good. He did have an accident yesterday, but we’ve just built him a pretty spectacular sandpit and he did not want to get out of the sandpit.

Vicki: So the cats aren’t peeing in your sandpit, it’s your son. Right. See you left this out of the story.

Jenna: He didn’t pee in the sandpit, he had a little spot on the front of his pants. I was watching, and I’m like you need to pee, you need to pee. And he’s like no, no Mummy sandpit. I’m like you need to get out of the sandpit. So of course sandpit’s been installed for like an hour and I’m running through the house with this kid who clearly needs to pee.

Vicki: Covered in sand.

Jenna: Because I didn’t take any time to stop and get the sand off him. So you know.

Vicki: You didn’t teach him to wee on the tree up the back?

Jenna: No, I’m actually trying, I know it’s different opinions, but I’m actually trying to teach him just because he’s a boy he’s not allowed to pee on the world.

Vicki: I know, it’s just something that I’m just not, I’m sorry, the world is not your bathroom.

Jenna: The end actually credit to Vicki, we’re doing something that will be a gift to my future son or daughter-in-law. We’re teaching him to wipe his penis after he pees.

Vicki: Much to Andrew’s disgust.

Jenna: Because you know what? No, we’re not having little pee drips everywhere, and I have control over this. I can teach and build a new breed of wonderful men who wipe. So we’re teaching him and he’s doing a very good job. He does wipe, he wipes his front, we’re using our cloth wipes still actually. We tried toilet paper the first couple of days and I basically went bleep this bleeping bleep. See, I bleeped myself, it’s fine. 

Andrew: No I did that, it was me.

Jenna: Oh, it was Andrew. It sounds a lot like me.

Vicki: Moo.

Jenna: I went moo this moo-ing moo and went and got my cloth wipes because, trying to wipe a small toddler’s butt with toilet paper is really annoying. Cloth wipes are efficient and I’m used to them and they work well. So we have still been using moistened cloth wipes to use.

Vicki: Do teach him to shake though, because otherwise when they get to school you may have an issue where they have an absolute meltdown when there is no toilet paper because that’s the only way they know how to clean their penis.

Jenna: I feel like you’re speaking from experience here.

Vicki: Yeah, just a little bit of experience. 

Jenna: You have a really regimented son. 

Vicki: Yes. He’s so unlike me.

Andrew: They don’t put toilet rolls at the trough.

Vicki: No, they don’t.

Andrew: Have you girls seen a trough?

Both: Yes.

Andrew: OK. They don’t put toilet rolls in.

Vicki: Men don’t wipe.

Vashti: Do you know how hard it is to get a female toilet at a festival or a concert or any sort of large gathering? You don’t get female toilets unless you want to line up for three hours.

Jenna: Yeah, so you go to the mens. 

Andrew: The festival that I just went to…

Vicki: You can actually get even plastic things that you can actually standing up…

Jenna: She-wee.

Vicki: Thank you.

Jenna: We got free sample ones of those at my last job. 

Andrew: Really? Somebody came in and handed them all out.

Jenna: Oh no, they were to do a review on. It was a fishing magazine and we got one to test for when you’re out. And one of the girls tested it. She likes to fish, that’s not me.

Andrew: The festival I was just at they closed the male toilets and turned them into female toilets.

Vashti: Really?

Jenna: Good, good, because it’s not, it’s bathroom unfairness. Anyway we’re teaching him to wipe, cloth wipes, he’s doing really good, but for us it worked really well. We didn’t leave the house for the first three days. I made sure I did the groceries while my husband was still at home and could stay home with him. Credit to my husband, he was absolutely so much better at the first few days of toilet training than I was. So much more attentive and so much more on top of it. 

Andrew: It actually sounds like you love your husband.

Jenna: Yeah, he seems pretty good. He’s OK.

Vicki: You’ll keep him around?

Jenna: Yeah.

Vicki: Have another child with him?

Jenna: Working on it. Give it a go. Don’t think we can say what Andrew said to me. Can you cut this bit out?

Andrew: No, I’m keeping it in because he’ll want to hear it.

Jenna: [indistinct, speaking fast, 16:08] It was when I flew to Sydney, Andrew. Andrew goes, there’s a lot of sperm between here and Sydney.

Vicki: Yeah, I did hear that. 

Jenna: Yes, but we’re after a specific type. 

Andrew: But you met him at a bar. Couldn’t you have just gone to a bar?

Jenna: Nonsense, I met him at a friend’s apartment at St Paddies day. Then we hooked up later at a bar. At Gilhoolies, where all good things happen. Anyhoo, toilet training, husband. Actually I had him booked out. I have three friends who are having some trouble toilet training, who all said can we leave our friends with Casey for the week and we’ll go away for the weekend? I had three toddlers booked in. Casey was not keen on this idea. So yeah, Ryan did really well. We weren’t planning on night training. We were going to keep using nappies until actually I got pregnant and my sleep was already messed up, because I didn’t want to give away my last few good months of sleep.

Vicki: Are you, are you, oh my gosh, are you intending to have another baby?

Jenna: Yeah.

Vicki: And how does that affect your work?

Jenna: I think my boss is really excited about it.

Andrew: We promote it. 

Vicki: Isn’t that an inhouse model?

Andrew: We went and bought the sperm for you. 

Jenna: I’m pretty sure a trip to Sydney is cheaper. 

Andrew: Depends on where you get it from. 

Vashti: We could have gotten some George Clooney or you know…

Jenna: Pretty sure that’s more expensive than an $850 trip to Sydney. I think that’s a lot cheaper. But no, I think this is the only workplace I’ve been encouraged to have a child. Inhouse model. At your service. Working on it.

Andrew: That’s right, we’ll have pictures of him, him or her, in every…

Jenna: We’ll have him in the fricken hospital.

Andrew: Every single babe, every single month we’ll have pictures of him in a nappy.

Jenna: Have all the child. Have all the children. 

Vicki: You didn’t want to have another one?

Vashti: Hell, no.

Andrew: Well she can’t with Brent. 

Jenna: That’s OK, we can get a lot of sperm between here and Sydney. We could find some.

Vicki: Well I’m heading over to Germany, there’s even more. And I just found out I’m going to be in Germany in the middle of Oktoberfest. There’s a lot of sperm then I bet.

Andrew: Both of you are going to be in Germany at Oktoberfest. 

Vashti: Well that hasn’t been revealed yet.

Jenna: Are you going?

Vashti: I am going to Germany.

Jenna: Oh my goodness. 

Andrew: Do you want me to take that out?

Vashti: No, go for it. We’re breaking news. When does this actually air, Andrew? Will it be breaking news by then?

Andrew: I think they’ll be back by then. 

Vicki: And still drunk.

Jenna: Yes, we would like to update you that as listening to this podcast that Vicki and Vashti, Vishti, as I call them, are still drunk.

Vashti: And there is plans to possibly stop in at Amsterdam as well. 

Vicki: Yeah no, I can’t remember where we’re doing. Didn’t we decide Bruges?

Vashti: Bruges.

Vicki: Bruges isn’t Amsterdam. We got like five days free.

Vashti: So there’s some really nice cafes in Amsterdam, I’ve heard.

Jenna: What kind of cafes, Vashti?

Vashti: Oh just ones that serve coffee and brownies. I love brownies. Love chocolate.

Jenna: See I’ve been to Amsterdam but I was like 15 at the time. 

Vashti: I was five, the last time I was in Amsterdam.

Vicki: I have never been to Europe. 

Vashti: My father is Dutch. Or was Dutch, he’s no longer with us. 

Jenna: I wouldn’t, is that your last name? No. Is that English?

Vashti: Maybe, I don’t know, somewhere back there. 

Jenna: I dated a Dutch guy all the way through high school so I went and had Christmas with his family when I was 15 or 16 or something like that. Went to Amsterdam.

Andrew: So, back to cloth nappies.

Vicki: We were very busy, Andrew.

Jenna: Back to cloth nappies. Yeah.

Andrew: The interesting thing you said to me before the podcast was, you aren’t using cloth nappies anymore. And you’re washing as much.

Jenna: So we’re out of nappies. I actually feel like I need to make an announcement in the groups that I’ve toilet trained. I’m not quite sure why I need to do that, but I feel like I do. I think the big thing I’ve found, at expos we say to people that the amount of laundry you do with kids, adding cloth nappies in really doesn’t make it that much more. It actually makes it more convenient for dirty, stuff with food on it or wet stuff.

Andrew: Milk.

Jenna: Milk, kids who have poured milk all over themselves. Mums who have poured all over themselves. It makes it really convenient, I know friends who have had mouldy nursing tops and stuff. Because I do cloth nappies I wash so frequently I never had that problem. So we always say this at expos, but the truth is, I’ve done cloth nappies from two weeks, so I don’t have a lot of experience with washing kids laundry without cloth nappies. And I’ve been, I must admit towards the last couple of months, knowing we were about to toilet train, I was getting like I’m a bit done with laundry and cloth nappies and stuff like that. I want a break before we do this again, and I was looking forward to the laundry load getting lighter. Fun fact, it doesn’t get lighter, that is true, when we say it doesn’t make that much of a difference, and I’m finding this out in the bad end of things. I’m like oh, this is not that much better.

Vashti: I literally with three kids at home, Mr Nest is away at the moment and I still do a minimum of one load of laundry a day.

Jenna: See I’m not doing that much but I’m doing, I have, I’m still doing nearly as much laundry as I was doing before. I’m probably doing one less load a week. And what’s happening is things are getting damp. Like we said, we’re using cloth wipes so they’re wet. My son spilled milk down the front of his shirt the other day, that’s what Andrew is talking about. He gets, I’ve never been good with bibs, because I did cloth nappies, and was washing all the time, I just threw dirty clothes in with that. Threw them in the prewash and everything came out sparkly clean. So I’m now dealing with all these damp, dirty clothes that I’ve never dealt with before that aren’t getting washed. With toddler wee, we were washing nightly at the end. We were doing prewash every night. So I’m dealing with all the stuff I wasn’t dealing with before. My laundry system is out of whack. I’m doing nearly as much laundry as before and I’m annoyed that it’s true from a personal perspective. And thrilled because it’s another great expo spiel to use. From a professional perspective. A bit torn about that.

Vicki: So you didn’t use any toilet training pants at all?

Jenna: Nope. I’m a rule for law, and the book told me to do these things and said that Pullups are just another type of nappy. Just different style.

Vicki: That’s always been, because I get asked a lot, why don’t you do a toilet training pant? And honestly it’s my stand on it. I just think it keeps kids in nappies longer. 

Vashti: See for me, I was different. We used toilet training pants on all three of our kids, but…

Andrew: Toilet training pants, are they tight on the bum?

Vashti: They’re just like a pair of undies. But they’ve got a little bit…

Vicki: They’re pretty much another nappy.

Vashti: …well yeah, there’s not as much absorbency in them, but a little amount of absorbency through the wet zone. But they’re shaped like, they’re designed…

Jenna: They’re helpful in cars and stuff so you don’t end up in a position where you have to wash your car seat and remove the fire retardant stuff.

Vicki: But if they’re not as absorbent and a toddler weed, I actually, to be perfect honest, I cannot see the point.

Vashti: See for us, for me, toilet training pants, they’re designed to catch those small leaks. So if your child is not ready to toilet train, toilet training pants aren’t going to help because they’re going to let out the whole rush. But if your child is ready for toilet training…

Jenna: A bit like what Ryan did in the sandpit yesterday.

Vashti: Yeah, toilet training pants will give you that, if you’re at the shops or in the car or something like that…

Jenna: It will give you time to run back to the car, like I did when Ryan said I need to go potty in the middle of the grocery store the other day.

Andrew: Or you could get all the sand off him before running in the house with him.

Jenna: No, just run the sand everywhere. Actually, sorry to interrupt but while I remember, in the car what we’re doing is working well, because we aren’t using toilet training, in case we have any leaks, I’ve got a newborn prefold, folded in half, kind of folded in thirds I think, just put up against his penis, under the belt buckle. Where a cloth nappy would sit. No more bulky than a cloth nappy would be. And then I’ve got a mini wet bag on the other side of that, so if he does have an accident in the car and I can’t pull over quick enough, that will catch it and it’s got a waterproof lining there. So still using some of my cloth nappy stash there. Also actually side effect of training is I’ve actually got all my nappies clean and away now. I’m seeing how many they are. It’s not a small amount, no. Sorry, I interrupted you, do continue.

Vashti: I found that toilet training pants worked for us, because we were able to not be contained at home. For us, being stuck at home for…

Jenna: Twelve days,  yeah.

Vashti: …twelve days, it wasn’t viable for any of our kids, especially not number three, who…

Jenna: You’ve got school runs and all kinds of things.

Vashti: I was doing school runs for the older two. I was working in the shop, I own my own business, I was running around. And Mr Nest was away a fair bit as well. So he was travelling for work and stuff. So it was just me. So toilet training pants were my saviour, because it meant that even though Kylan knew when he needed to go to the toilet, he didn’t quite always catch it. He’d dribble a little bit. So having the toilet training pants meant that we weren’t changing clothes, we weren’t washing car seats, we weren’t having puddles in the middle of Coles and stuff like that.

Vicki: So curious, did that extend the process?

Vashti: For Braith, no. Braith was fully toilet trained by the time he was 18 months.

Vicki: No, no, no I mean time-wise, when you start to go was it still done in a couple of days?

Vashti: Yep. So Braith was very quick. Mikayla we had, I think we started her too early and because of issues she’d had from her allergies from disposables in those first few weeks, she was quite slow to toilet train. And Kylan, he was down pat, he knew what he had to do. But I didn’t really push him. So yeah. I don’t think it extended the process for us in any way, we still got through it fairly quickly but it was always good to have those toilet training pants afterwards just for that peace of mind, for me.

Jenna: On night training, still using nappies and I suppose this might be the same with toilet training pants, for washing, in case anyone out there is wondering how the heck you do your washing if you’ve got toilet training pants that have wee in them, if you’re still doing night nappies and you don’t have day nappies and stuff. Best advice there is do a really good hand rinse with some detergent and hot water, a couple of rinses, just by hand, and then just throw it in with your normal clothes. Make sure you give them, especially night nappies, because by that age if they’re toilet training, their night nappies are pretty full of wee. So giving that a good hand rinse in a lot of hot water and a little bit of, just a teaspoon of detergent and then throw that in with your normal laundry is the best way to go about that, in case anyone’s curious. We were doing that for a week or two I think. And then what happened is Ryan was waking dry a lot of mornings and we really didn’t want to night train. As I said, I was waiting until I was pregnant and my sleep was already interrupted and he started waking dry. And then at 4 am he started crying one morning. And I was like, what is his problem? Because he sleeps through the night now. I went in there and I was trying to work it out and I couldn’t quite work out what was up and I put him down, and I noticed his nappy the next morning was wet. I was like OK. And then the next morning, I wonder if that’s what it was. The next morning he woke at 4 and weed again. He’s my child, he’s very regimented. And I changed his nappy and realised he’d just weed in it. So I’m getting up, I was like OK. My husband was like, we need to listen to him. He’s screaming out to us that he’s ready to night train. So we took the side off the cot and put his potty out. And I think day two of that we woke up. I looked at him on the monitor and he’d taken his pants off and he was sitting on the potty doing a wee on his own. Like he woke up in the morning and sat down and did a wee all on his own before we woke up. I was like, he was so ready. Telling us, we’re not listening. We adjusted…

Vashti: In that as well…

Jenna: I changed plans. It hurt, and Casey had to tell me to do it, but I did it.

Vashti: But not all kids night train at the same time as they day train though.

Jenna: We really, we hadn’t, most of my friends that I know do it at a different time, and we were not intending on training at all. Ryan just was like no, we’re doing this Mum and Dad, can you please listen to me, I’m ready for this. So we had to.

Vicki: Now what’s really interesting is you toilet trained pretty much the same way we did, and our kids day and night trained at the same time. So I wonder whether, who knows? 

Jenna: It’s that whole, I very much, I was planning on sending my nappies down to my Mum to have an extended dry, to be honest, and I was going to say, we’re putting them in the car, let’s get rid of them. But Ryan seems pretty chill with the fact that they’re still in his room, we just don’t use them anymore. So we’ve just kind of left them there. 

Andrew: How many did you have?

Jenna: Oh Andrew. 

Vashti: That’s not a good question to ask somebody who works for a nappy company.

Jenna: I would like to very quickly clarify this by saying we’ve done a lot of product photos, a lot of videos, and I think altogether, of all in twos, I have about 60. I’m not done.

Vicki: That’s not even, you’re not even trying.

Jenna: The thing I was thinking about, I’ve easily given away about 30 nappies.

Vicki: You’re still not even trying. 

Jenna: Because I know, I had a couple of friends they’d come over, I love that print and I missed out. I never felt comfortable, even though we didn’t need them all, selling any of my nappies that I got for photo shoots or to do product imagery, that didn’t sit well with me. I wanted to do something nice with them. So if friends came over and said that, I’d be like here, have it, and hand them the nappy. Or I had a friend with a mould incident and I helped her get back into cloth by giving her 15 nappies, I think. So I gave a lot of nappies away. So that’s just my all in twos, by the way. Then I’ve got night nappies. I’ve got fitted, I’ve got about 10, 12, between bamboo delights, bigs, I was just going to say what are the big Bam Bams, and then I worked it out myself. 

Vashti: Ecoposh? You’ve got some Ecoposh in there?

Jenna: Yep, I’ve got four of the, yeah fitted nappies I’ve got Ecoposh, I’ve got our bamboo delights, I’ve got Bigs, I’ve got a few Seedlings and Gro-Vias in there. And then prefolds. I’m not up to prefolds yet. I’ve got may 15 prefolds, some flats that I had, if we talk about those muslin flats that I used for boosting for night nappies, I’ve got another 15 of those. I could cloth triplets.

Vicki: I think Andrew underestimates how many nappies I actually have.

Jenna: I could cloth triplets.

Andrew: So they’re still in Ryan’s room, you haven’t actually shifted them yet?

Jenna: Yeah, they’re still in the change table in Ryan’s room. That seemed an easy place to put them. I was planning on moving them, but he doesn’t seem at all fussed about the fact. He pointed to them the other day and went “Nappies over there” and I went yep, and we don’t wear them anymore do we? Because he’s a big boy. He doesn’t like being told he’s a big boy or grown up, he’s smart, he’s onto it, he knows it’s a trick. He goes, he’s like “No, Ryan not grown up. Ryan little”. And I’m like yeah, growing up is a trick, dude. But he really likes if you tell him he’s clever. If you tell him he’s clever he’s really chuffed with that. But he’s onto us about this whole grown up thing. He knows that it’s not good. He knows that it’s a trick.

Andrew: So when you store them, how are you going to store them?

Jenna: I’m not, I’m just going to leave them there.

Andrew: OK, you’re that confident you’re going to have another baby so quickly you’re not even going to put them away?

Jenna: Well where am I going to put them? 

Vicki: We had four years before our kids and they just hung around in a basket somewhere.

Jenna: Well the thing is, I have to find somewhere to store them if I do that. At the moment they’re all stored under the change table, neatly in boxes. I’ve tidied them all. I did go through and tidy them all because it was a bit of a, what’s another word for [indistinct, 31:49]. I was a bit of a cluster…

Vicki: I’m going to moo so much in this episode.

Andrew: I’ve never had to edit somebody so much. 

Vicki: When it’s not me. 

Jenna: And here am I, the prude that never swears on radio. A bit of a mess, there we go. It was a cluster under there, I just shoved nappies in left, right and centre. I have a few with some small holes that need repairing or ones that I couldn’t find the booster for or stuff like that.

Andrew: Yeah, so that’s my next question. What sort of condition are they in? Are you going to be able to go straight to the next baby?

Jenna: Absolutely. Most of them are, and keep in mind I’ve been “collecting” nappies as we go. So not all of mine have a full two years use on them. But they’re all really good. The only ones I have that…

Andrew: Well when you’ve got 60 nappies, none of them are going to be…

Jenna: Exactly, I’ve got a huge stash so the rotation on them is not bad. And the Bamboo Delights, two of them I bought a week before he night trained because we weren’t intending on night training, and that’s where the stop came in. I do have that have, the Candys and the… Vicki help me. Snaps. The snaps on the trifolds…

Vashti: Vicki’s a bit too tired actually. Are you getting a migraine? Because your circles are getting really dark.

Vicki: She travelled through China with me and she can see, she can actually just look at me and say you’re getting a migraine aren’t you?

Jenna: A little warning sign.

Vashti: Eight, nine days in China, I think I picked it up on day two. Like…

Vicki: You just see it coming.

Vashti: It really is obvious.

Vicki: So I go dark under the eyes everybody, it’s not lack of sleep, it’s actually stress.

Jenna: Why would you be stressed? Snaps is the word I was after. So the fabric around the snaps is disintegrating around two of mine. I’m using air quotes here, you can’t see that, it’s a good idea for a podcast. And I know which ones those are because I cut the label, I split the label so I could pick them out of the other ones. What they are is, I don’t know if you remember, she doesn’t care, Cleese Berryman. She bought some nappies second hand and it said they were in a good condition. She got them and they were atrocious. And she stripped them a couple of times and then she brought them to the expo and said Jenna, do you want to have another go, because they’re still coming up really crap. So I had another go with slightly stronger bleach soak and I managed to get them up to a good condition again. They didn’t smell, they were white again. They weren’t stinky as soon as they came off Ryan. They were nice and clean after that. But those two had the most wear and tear. It shows a lot about washing.

Vicki: Ammonia. Ammonia build up from…

Jenna: Yeah, that’s exactly what we talked about. It’s around the stress points.

Vashti: The stress point is the snaps, because they’re constantly pulling at the fabric. 

Jenna: Exactly, but those had really bad ammonia damage. I’ve been using them and had them in rotation just out of curiosity. And you know what? Except for around the snaps, they’re actually holding up pretty well. Not really any other problems other than that. But you can tell the ones that…

Vicki: And the PUL is OK in them? 

Jenna: No, she only bought me inserts. She had them. I had one nappy that’s a little sticky. It’s not delaminated but I think it might be heading that way. But I think it might have been, it’s one nappy, something’s happened to it. 

Vicki: Well actually Amy, Amy from Clean Cloth Nappy Hire actually posted something just in…

Vashti: One of our industry groups.

Vicki: …yeah the other day about a nappy that she had left in a wet bag in the car. 

Vashti: And it was eight days.

Vicki: Yeah, and there’s actually marks on the wet bag where the nappy was sitting, where there’s a little bit, it looks like it’s starting to delaminate in its spots. You can actually see almost like bleach spots. And so she’s going to do a little bit of research with that. Pretty much ammonia is hands down the most damaging thing for your nappy.

Vashti: She’s got a toddler though as well, so they are very strong wees. 

Vicki: Yes, she does.

Vashti: It’s quite funny though, I had a nappy, I remember I had a nappy, it was one of my favourite nappies when Mikayla was still quite young, because we were living in Victoria so she was less than six months old. And it got the poonami of all poonamis in it. Threw it in the wet bag and it fell underneath the front seat of the car. And it wasn’t until two or three loads later that I went where is that nappy? Went hunting and found it.

Andrew: Wait a minute, wait a minute. It was in a wet bag and it was in there for three days…

Vashti: Two or three loads. So about a week.

Vicki: It could be a week.

Vashti: About a week. 

Andrew: And you couldn’t smell it?

Vashti: Nope.

Andrew: So that wet bag was holding that smell in?

Vashti: Yes.

Andrew: Wow. That’s great.

Vashti: It was an exclusively breastfeed baby poo though, so it’s not as smelly as other poo.

Jenna: That’s just custard.

Vashti: But in a car in central Victoria in summer, parked in a garage that had no insulation or anything like that, so you open the car door and a wall of heat hits you. Pulls the wet bag out when I realised it was still in the car, opened it  up and near got knocked out by the smell. Considered, very, very strongly considered just throwing it in the bin, but decided I’d clean it up and it cleaned up OK and it was all fine. There was no issues with it. Because it was one of my favourite nappies. 

Andrew: You guys always say don’t leave wee on the nappies, but you’re ruining that by saying this.

Vashti: I know, well…

Vicki: What we’re saying is, and this is where, and it would be good to do a podcast actually on busting some of the cloth nappy myths of long ago. But what we’re saying is that whilst that nappy may not have been damaged that day, the treatment that it had means that in two years time, it’s not going to be in that same condition because of the treatment that it’s had along the way. The ammonia has damaged it and it will…

Vashti: Which is what Jenna found with those inserts, that had been…

Jenna: And also it’s consistent ammonia damage versus a one off bad time, which would actually be worse. And also you’re asking about condition. I did have some inserts from two different brands, both bamboo cotton blend that had some holes in it that did need to sew over and those where from when I tried a three day wash cycle to see if I could get away with it and the answer is no, I couldn’t. Because I started getting holes and what I did at the time is I sewed over all the holes so I could know if I was getting new ones or if it was the same ones. And when I switched to daily prewash, with my three day wash cycle, I didn’t get any more holes. So absolutely I saw very easily the effects.

Vicki: Very distinct.

Jenna: I saw very distinctively how ammonia was damaging my nappies very immediately by doing that. And like I said, sewed over them so I could see if there was more or less, and when I switched to a daily prewash that all resolved itself. 

Vicki: That all really makes sense. Those nappies towards the end of Gabriel’s toileting, when he was only using one or two nappies a day…

Vashti: And you were washing once a week.

Vicki: If that, if that. It’s no wonder, it’s absolutely no wonder that pretty much by the end of it, those nappies fell apart.

Jenna: And I have a friend who recently replaced a lot of her inserts from her old nappies because she, her oldest is five and she was using the old school wash routine and stuff. And she wasn’t, it was cold, eco detergent, not enough of it, that kind of stuff. And you could see the ammonia damage in all the nappies, just shredded. And she’s replaced them with Candies and she’s actually, through no prodding of me actually, it was one of those times when she was, I don’t think she wants to be pushed, I’ll just let her. And she actually…

Vicki: Oh this is your friend who pretty much was right into the whole eco detergents and she didn’t think her nappies were dirty? Is that the friend you’re talking about?

Jenna: No, no, I think I just didn’t have the conversation with her. She wasn’t in the best place at the time, I didn’t want to be like here’s something you’re doing wrong. I was trying to approach it with more kindness. And not pushing her. Her kid was near toilet training, it was neither here nor there. But she ended up messaging me, how do I do a strip and sanitise? What’s your recommended procedure? And she’s actually like I’ve switched to this, oh my God they’re all so much cleaner. Blah, blah, I didn’t realise. She actually…

Vicki: Because you don’t know what you don’t know.

Jenna: And the thing is, I think so many people don’t realise their nappies are dirty until, I’ve had a few, you know how I said I was giving nappies away at some point? I had three different friends, no sorry two different friends, three nappies, two different friends, message me and say I didn’t realise my nappies were dirty until I brought one of yours home. And she was like, they didn’t realise theirs were all grey and brown, off colour and stuff, until they had one of my well-worn but very clean inserts up against it, and they were like, can I have some watch advice? That actually led to a bunch of wash advice. I forgot about that.

Vicki: That is actually, I know this is going to sound completely off topic but I will bring it through, but this is like when you breastfeed a toddler. When you start breastfeeding, you breastfeed a brand new baby, and this baby grows, and every single day this kid is getting bigger, but you don’t see it because you’re just feeding them every day. And then all of a sudden you’ve got a three or three and a half year old, and don’t get me wrong, I see a three or three and a half year old breastfeeding, it even takes me back, but I did it. But it’s weird. And I think it’s the same thing with washing, because it’s a slow process you don’t know

Jenna: You don’t realise, it’s slow, you don’t notice it. And it’s funny you say that, I had a friend, she was breastfeeding her toddler and Ryan was very young and I was breastfeeding him, and I looked over and I went, that looks weird. 

Vicki: Yes, it does.

Jenna: The head is bigger than your boob and it looks very, very strange. And I said that, and I was like not judgemental, I was like it looks very strange. And then she was like OK, that’s interesting, flash forward a year and a half. Ryan was a toddler breastfeeding and she had her second, who was a newborn that she was breastfeeding and she looked over and went oh, oh, I know what you’re talking about now. I just had that weird… I was like uh huh. I’ll have another newborn because I get to do it again. But yeah, you’re so right because it happens so…

Vashti: Slowly.

Jenna: I remember being pregnant and arrogant as you are at the time…

Vicki: No!

Jenna: I know, right.

Vicki: Such a, is anybody not a sancta-mummy? 

Jenna: I tried very hard not to do, Andrew’s raising, Andrew is not a sancta-mummy. That is very true.

Andrew: Me, I’ve got my hand up. 

Jenna: Sancta-daddy. I tried very hard not to do the thing you do when you’re pregnant, when you’re like this and this and this. 

Vicki: My kid is not going to eat McDonalds. Yeah everyone laughed at me too.

Jenna: There are a lot of things that I didn’t do that with, but the one that I did was like I want to breastfeed, but anything past a year is just weird. I got to a year and I couldn’t imagine weaning Ryan at a year. It was just like wow, I didn’t know what the hell I was… anyway it was really funny around that time people were asking me, when do you think you’ll wean? And I remember saying I don’t know. Any idea, roughly? Do you want to go fully with them weaning, or do you want to just do… I kept saying I’ve had hubris about this before and I’m not going to do it again. I’m literally not putting a time or a date or an age on it or anything, because I thought I knew what I was talking about before and I didn’t. And at that point I very much was just following, not even following his lead, but following the ethos that as long as both of us are happy we’ll keep doing it. And we got to a point where I wasn’t, so I did initiate weaning. But it was very much something that I couldn’t have understood until I was there, because you don’t start, and Mum said this to me once. I’m like, I wouldn’t know what to do with a ten year old. Mum goes, you’ve got ten years to work that out. 

Vicki: Yeah, you do.

Jenna: And I was like, it was one of those really crystallising moments for me where I was like oh, you’re right. You don’t need to know how to deal with a newborn and a ten year old at the same time. You’re doing one of those at a time.

Vicki: Because I can tell you, if they actually gave you a ten year old, or worse a fourteen year old, you seriously, nobody would dump that on you because you would literally be flailing, because I’m flailing with a fourteen year old as it is. And I know this kid inside out. 

Jenna: Teenagers suck, people, they suck big time.

Vicki: There is a time you will go back, you will wish for the two year old tantrums. 

Jenna: I don’t know, I had a hysterical toddler at 10 pm I’d like to point out Casey and I had gone to bed an hour earlier. We’d gone to bed early. Hysterical last night, because he wanted his water bottle in the corner of his cot and it was not.

Vicki: It was in the middle of his cot? 

Jenna: But I didn’t know what it was. I didn’t work that out until he’s suddenly screaming after I’d gone in, Casey had gone in, this was my take two, half an hour of this hysteria, and he farted and then he said “water bottle corner”. And I put the water bottle in the corner and he calmed down. I’ve no idea if it was the far upsetting his stomach.

Vicki: See I just got the fart from my son and the giggles. That was our night. But parenting isn’t…

Jenna: I co-slept last night and remembered why I don’t do that. It’s horrible. Vashti and I have very different sleep opinions. I can see why it should be good, but I don’t think my kid has that setting. Four o’clock I gave up after I still don’t really know what his hysteria was about last night, but he got upset and we both tried. No idea what was up with him. He wasn’t even scared. Ended up bringing him into the bed and was like screw it, I’ll try, 4 am I was just like do you want to come and cuddle in Mummy and Daddy’s bed? He spent an hour and a half sitting up, sitting down, jumping on us, moving around. He did not sleep a wink. He did not try and sleep.

Vashti: That’s because he’s not used to it. It’s something new to him. Whereas…

Jenna: Yes, and it was just like he headbutted me and he kicked. And I was like oh yeah, you don’t do this, but from a newborn if we lay him in bed, that’s why I didn’t understand, I think I told you this, I didn’t understand co-sleeping wasn’t breast sleeping. Because if I lay him in bed with us he’d just scream. From a newborn and I was just like OK, that mustn’t be… so I started breastfeeding him lying down and he’d do that. But if he slept in the bed with us he’d do that all night. He wouldn’t, there was no, and if I tried to take him off and lie him next to us, he’d just start screaming again. OK, that’s not a setting you have. And he was, oh goodness, six, seven months old when I said that to a friend. She goes you know that’s not co-sleep. That doesn’t mean, co-sleeping doesn’t always mean breast sleeping, right? And I’m like, no? I literally didn’t understand there were two different things.

Vicki: All of our kids had different variations. Abbey wasn’t a co-sleeper. Gabriel is. Gabriel still. He would happily at seven, still be in our bed.

Vashti: Kylan still happily sleeps in our bed and he’s five next month. We’re actually redesigning the whole house at the moment and moving everyone around, so he will be in his own bed for the first time. He’s got the cot side carted to our bed, but especially with Brent away, he’s in our, we’ve got a king bed, it’s OK. And do you know what? I will start him over his side of the bed, right next to the cot. I’d love to put him in the cot but I know that that won’t last. So I’ll start him all the way over the other side. He will still leave to me in the middle of the night so I can’t move. 

Jenna: Even going on two and a half, Ryan last night didn’t want to sleep next to us, he wanted to sleep on top of Casey. Again, he doesn’t get that…

Vashti: Your child just doesn’t do co-sleeping. 

Jenna: He just doesn’t understand. But yeah, I said the words if you don’t lie down you have to go back to your bed, like 72 times this morning. It’s someone else’s problem today. I dropped him at Guy’s and went have fun, bye, he’s been up since four, he might need an early nap. I’m going now. And then I came here. What are we meant to be talking about, Andrew? 

Andrew: Andrew’s gone. Andrew’s not here.

Vicki: Please leave a message. After the beep.

Jenna: Toilet training. 

Vicki: Moo, moo.

Jenna: I have an unrelated but cloth nappy thing to say.

Andrew: I’m actually sitting here wondering when the best time to end this podcast is.

Jenna: Can I put a bonus fun fact at the end of it?

Andrew: I don’t know, you guys are just bringing all the cool stuff in. You guys got more to talk about, we’re already over 50 minutes now.

Jenna: Well I’ve got a bonus fun fact.

Andrew: Except for all the swearing I’ve got to take out.

Vicki: It’s mooing, just moo it.

Jenna: Moo.

Andrew: It’s going to take it back to 40.

Jenna: I am sorry. I am not. I hope my mother’s not listening now actually. 

Vashti: Should I just join in, just for the hell of it?

Jenna: Yeah, why are you not swearing? Quickly.

Vashti: I don’t know [laughter and clapping].

Andrew: You know, every time you say a swear word it takes me five minutes to fix it.

Vicki: You love it though Andrew. 

Andrew: I’m going to keep all the swear words and string them together on one… and play it to you. Think of that.

Jenna: I think it sounds like a good song. 

Vashti: Can it be my new ring tone? 

Jenna: Yes, love it. My bonus fun fact was about muconium [sic]. Yah, everyone’s…

Vicki: Muconium [sic]?

Jenna: Muconium, meconium?

Vicki: Meconium. 

Jenna: Meconium, it’s one of those one’s I’ve always read.

Vicki: It’s an E not a U. Me-conium.

Jenna: Meconium, OK, meconium. It’s not as hard to get out of nappies as you thought it was. Well I didn’t think it was, but…

Andrew: This is something that happens at birth.

Jenna: Did you not know I had a newborn?

Andrew: You don’t have a newborn.

Vicki: No, she’s sick of washing, she can’t wait to stop washing and then she offers to wash a friend’s nappies.

Jenna: My friend wanted to start cloth in hospital, what do you do for another cloth mum who wants to start in hospital? You offer to wash her nappies for her. So my friend had, congratulations Jess, you can be the creepy one, the one creeped out by being spoken to on the podcast now. My friend had a little baby boy last week. 

Vashti: I know, and she announced it and didn’t share photos, so I said…

Jenna: I know, she didn’t announce it she randomly commented somewhere and said she had a one day old.

Vashti: And I’m like, photos or it didn’t happen.

Jenna: He’s very, very cute.

Andrew: Keep on subject, this is not a Facebook rant. Podcast, not a Facebook rant. 

Jenna: You sure? I think it is. So she had a baby and I went and I offered to clean her nappies for her so she could start in cloth without any fuss at the hospital and not have to worry about it until she got home. So I got the nappies, and the thing is, the meconium by the time I picked them up had been on for, I want to say a day and a half, maybe two days by the time I rinsed them. So a little bit. I rinsed them off, I’ve got a sprayer, rinsed it off. By the way, first time I’ve ever seen meconium, because I never saw Ryan’s, because Ryan was four days old before I changed a nappy.

Vashti: Nice.

Andrew: Three days, it would have turned into amber by then wouldn’t it?

Jenna: I very clearly turned around to my husband and I was like, when you have stitches in your genitals, you can change a nappy. No, thank you.

Vicki: Get out of changing nappies.

Jenna: I need to eat lunch. Anyway. Blah, blah, blah. Anyway I rinsed it off with my sprayer and it was still really stained, like a maroon colour, think Queensland.

Vicki: The best state. Or not.

Jenna: And I was like, honestly what happened was I was a bit tired and I wanted to go to bed. So I was just like you know what, I’m going to put these on, when they’re stained in the morning I’ll grab out the ones that are still stained and I’ll soak them in some Napisan and get it out.

Vicki: You did not sun them? Let’s not go there.

Jenna: No, I wasn’t going to sun them to sanitise them. And I took them out the next morning and couldn’t find a stain anywhere. Two step wash cycle, I did spray stain remover on them, and I did delay the wash for half an hour so the stain remover sat on it for half an hour. And I did a 60 degree prewash and a 60 degree main wash, just to cover my bases, and yep, came out sparkly clean, absolutely no problem. So I know that’s something a lot of people stress about, if they want to use cloth from birth. And honestly, it came out so easily, it does look horrifying and sticky and I definitely didn’t chase my husband around the house saying hey, want to look at this? I’m a nice wife. 

Andrew: That’s your favourite game, isn’t it? 

Vicki: No, that’s his.

Jenna: Have a look at this. It’s a very different game. But yeah, it came out. I know that’s something people stress about using cloth from birth and it came out so easy, it wasn’t a problem at all. So that’s my completely unrelated fun fact.

Vashti: So just in case you wanted to know, this started about a toilet training episode and ended up in breastfeeding and co-sleeping and meconium. 

Vicki: And another fun fact, parenting doesn’t actually get any easier, it just changes. So don’t think, here I rant about teenagers because that’s what I’m going through. You’re ranting about two year olds having tantrums, you’re ranting about four year olds who just can’t sit still. It’s all relevant, it’s all relevant.

Jenna: I will say this, I don’t think, from my experience at least, any of it is as, I wasn’t to say intense is the word I’m going to use, as the newborn stage. That stage…

Vicki: Oh my gosh, I found that the easiest.

Vashti: Oh no, the newborn stage is so easy, they sleep and feed…

Andrew: [Quacks] [laughter]

Jenna: Vashti, stop bringing down the tone, OK? She’s gone red.

Vashti: I didn’t even mean to do that.

Andrew: You’ve just confused everyone, because what they heard was breastfeed, sleep, moo. 

Vashti: Oh sweetie, if your newborn is mooing, something is very wrong. 

Vicki: But that actually just goes to prove the point that everybody’s experience is different and it’s just each stage has its own challenges.

Jenna: Yeah, I think for me it’s the whole like, he can play on his own for half an hour. It’s the whole like you’re holding them, they’re needing you constantly.

Vicki: No, you know what it is? You’re so organised, you like structure, and newborns do not offer structure at all, even the most…

Jenna: And Jess says that, Jess will say this to me, like my friend, I find a lot of people who don’t have your hormones have a better memory of your life from different stages. And she said to me, she turned around, yeah…

Andrew: Quack, quack.

Jenna: Moo newborn. And as a toddler he is great at independent play, and he’s a really chilled kid. Whereas the newborn stage for me was such a struggle. So I found it got, it’s the around the clock-ness. I like that it’s not around the cloth anymore and it’s not…

Vicki: That’s because your kid sleeps through, like ours, Gabe didn’t sleep through until he was four.

Jenna: Even during the day, the fact that he can sit and play and not need to be held, not need to sleep on me. I don’t know, I just found that so, and even going over and seeing friends with newborns, I’m like I just think that’s so intense.

Vicki: It is, it is.

Jenna: They need you hugely. I can leave the house and someone else can feed him. And again, everyone’s experience is different, because if you had no luck breastfeeding or didn’t want to and you’re bottle feeding, you can leave the house. Or if your kid takes a bottle, my kid never took a bottle. Like you can have expressed milk. I think…

Vicki: See I think carrying a baby hooked up to your boob and being able to do stuff was actually probably the easiest part of…

Vashti: I was back at the shop when Kylan was seven weeks old and he was going with me. He was at the shop with me until he was 14 months. He was in the carrier. I was serving customers and breastfeeding him at the same time. So you know, it was just…

Jenna: Just scrub my face.

Vashti: …it’s weird, you’re sitting there going what the…

Jenna: It’s a confused look.

Vicki: It’s different for everybody and each and I don’t think any stage is good or bad, it’s just different. That’s the best way to explain it.

Jenna: I was listening to you talking about the teenage problems and they’re just so complicated. 

Vashti: But you’ve got another 11 years to work that out. 

Vicki: And then you still won’t have the answers.

Jenna: Ssh, I’ll know everything. 

Vicki: No, he will know everything, you won’t know anything. 

Vashti: Braith’s 14, and you know what, I’m just so over it. Braith’s 14 in October.

Jenna: So toilet training, that’s where we started here.

Andrew: So thank you Vashti.

Vashti: Thanks Andrew.

Andrew: Thanks Vicki.

Vicki: Thanks Andrew.

Andrew: Thanks Jenna.

Jenna: I think you’re welcome. I’m not sure how much I derailed this.

Andrew: Bye everybody.


Andrew: Vicki Simpson is a wife and mother to three children, President of the Australian Nappy Association and owner and founder of Bubblebubs. Vicki has been making and selling cloth nappies through her website for 15 years. Bubblebubs is now one of the most recognised and awarded cloth nappy brands in Australia, and is currently expanding to other countries. You can find out more and contact her through her website, Vashti Wadwell is mother to three children and has been using cloth nappies for 13 years. She is the owner of Australia’s first cloth nappy store, Nest Nappies, located in Brisbane, Australia. She can be contacted through her website, If you would like to give us feedback, go to If you are finding this podcast helpful, the way to thank us is to leave feedback in the iTunes store or wherever you listen to podcasts. I am your host, Andrew Simpson. 


Jenna: Do we have an award for most off-topic…

#39 Questions and Answers Live

Nappy Leaks is recorded in front of a live studio audience. I always wanted to say that, but I do have a few corrections. We were not in a studio we were in the office of Bubblebubs and the studio audience was 12 and 50% of those were babies. But it was fun doing this series of live show were the audience asked Vicki and Vashti all the questions.

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Nappy Leaks Podcast: Live May 2019

Nappy Leaks is recorded in front of a live studio audience. I always wanted to say that, but I do have a few corrections. We were not in a studio we were in the office of Bubblebubs and the studio audience was 12 and 50% of those were babies. But it was fun doing this series of live show were the audience asked Vicki and Vashti all the questions.

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Podcast 36 How to spot quality cloth nappies.

Transcript: How to spot quality cloth nappies.

Andrew: How are you doing, Vashti?

Vashti: I’m good thanks, Andrew. How are you?

Andrew: Excellent, how you doing Vicki?

Vicki: Yeah, pretty good.

Andrew: Excellent. So a couple of things I want to talk about before we start is our listeners. Our listeners jumped another 30%.

Vashti: Wow.

Andrew: So that’s 30 extra people. No, just kidding [laughter]. That started listening in March, which is fantastic actually, because we put a lot of effort into it, and we just spent a lot of money on new microphones and new software. So I’m hoping you’re hearing the extra quality of the recordings. And if you’re listening on the right type of podcast listening device, you can actually also see the pictures change as we go through the chapters of the episode, and if there’s something that you’re interested in, you can actually click on the picture and it will actually take you to the website.

Vashti: Wow.

Vicki: So he’s trying to see, are you trying to sell this to all of the listeners, but underneath that you’re trying to say, Vicki, I just spent an awful lot of money on software and hardware, and the listeners really appreciate it.

Vashti: Yeah.

Andrew: They do, they do. You just haven’t seen the bill on the software yet.

Vicki: No, I have not. This I know, this I know.

Vashti: Actually I’m pretty interested. I might actually go and listen. What are the right apps that we need to listen through to do this changing pictures thing?

Andrew: Well, I’m not actually 100% sure on an android device, but on my…

Vicki: Because we have a Genius Bar at home, in case anybody doesn’t actually know, we are Apple fan people, through and through.

Vashti: Same here.

Andrew: Overcast is the app I use.

Vashti: Overcast?

Vicki: You probably just lost that 30% of listeners. Bye.

Andrew: That’s right.

Vashti: Overcast, OK, I might actually listen to an episode. I don’t listen to the episodes…

Vicki: Don’t worry, neither do I.

Vashti: …if you haven’t worked that out.

Andrew: Actually secretly…

Vicki: I don’t think I’ll actually learn anything, that’s why I don’t listen.

Vashti: It’s funny, because Andrew used to send the episodes to Vicki and me to check before he posted them. He’s worked out not to do that because we don’t listen.

Andrew: I never got any feedback, so I stopped uploading them. But funny thing though, I do upload them, like they’re up on Vicki’s website like a week and actually they’re up on your website like a week before the actual publish date.

Vashti: Oh, there you go.

Andrew: And it’s interesting checking the stats on that thing, because it’s listened to five times. So all the Bubblebubs company people who have access to the site go and listen to the episode as soon as I put it up, before it becomes public.

Vashti: Might be Jenna listening five times.

Andrew: It could be. It’s usually like, she notices pretty quickly actually. Are you listening to us now, Jenna?

Vashti: Maybe. She might be in the Philippines.

Andrew: I also wanted to give a shout out to all the cloth nappy stores in Australia. There’s quite a few now, isn’t there?

Vashti: Yeah, you’ve got, well there’s me, obviously…

Andrew: Nest Nappies, yes.

Vashti: You’ve got Darlings Downunder in Ringwood in Victoria.

Andrew: Excellent.

Vashti: You’ve got the Cloth Nappy Lady in Tecoma in Victoria.

Andrew: Excellent.

Vashti: You’ve got Little Green Footprints in Caulfield South in Victoria.

Vicki: Baby Shop in Newcastle.

Vashti: Baby Shop in Newcastle.

Vicki: Adamstown.

Andrew: Excellent.

Vashti: You’ve got Little Aussie Monster up in Cairns. Nappy Bucket has just changed hands, and they have a pop-up shop at their local supermarket or their local shopping centre in Mackay. They’re doing that, so they’ve got a showroom.

Vicki: There’s a lot of retailers that have showrooms in their homes, like Fluffy Bums do in South Australia, and Booty Crawl in W.A., in Perth.

Vashti: And Boutique Bums in W.A. There’s also, who was it?

Vicki: Little Rompers in Northern Territory have got, well I know they stock our stock, I’m assuming they sell some other cloth nappy brands as well.

Vashti: Nappy Bucket has a showroom as well as their pop-up shop that they’re doing. Little Piglet in Springfield, here in Brisbane. She has a showroom. Critters Creations in South Australia. Cloth Nappies Downunder does appointments. I don’t think she’s got a full on show room, but she does do appointments in her home. Most online retailers you can organise an appointment to go and see them and have a chat to them.

Vicki: I guess people could come here. Well they do, they come and pick up, you know actually probably when this podcast goes, depending on when this podcast goes, we’ll actually be working five days a week. I’m still not working Tuesdays though. I’m still going to spend Tuesdays with my Mum. But I’ve actually got someone that will be coming in to open up on a Tuesday.

Vashti: Nice.

Andrew: Excellent.

Vashti: I’m still open six days a week.

Vicki: I work 24/7, so you know. Are we going to have to pull down our pants in a minute?

Vashti: Mine is bigger than yours. For those of you who watched that live recording of the Nest Release a couple of weeks, well when we released the Nest print, my laptop does fit in the double pocket wet bags.

Vicki: Yeah, that was a bit of an in-joke.

Vashti: Yeah, just thought I’d better explain it for those that hadn’t seen it.

Andrew: And of course the next place you can go if you can’t see it at a local retailer, and hello to all the local retailers, and if I missed you and if you’re a retailer, send us an email and we will give you a shout out on the next podcast. Another place you can go of course, is baby shows. You love going to baby shows, don’t you, Vicki?

Vicki: I just love it so much.

Vashti: I’m actually missing it. I’m missing it, I’ve only done one show so far this year, and it was my home town. And so…

Vicki: Well I must admit, I’ve just come back from Adelaide and shout out to all the Adelaide people, and the wonderful people that are on the stand, and if I start actually listing them, I might…

Vashti: Miss someone accidentally.

Vicki: …miss someone. But I know Katelyn and Hannah and Olivia and oh my gosh I can see all of the faces and can’t remember one single name.

Andrew: Hayley?

Vashti: And Nicole.

Vicki: Oh yeah, Hayley and Nicole. They were over there…

Andrew: Molly.

Vicki: Oh Molly, yes.

Andrew: Olivia.

Vashti: You said Olivia.

Vicki: Have you got a list? Can we re-record this? No actually, it’s my first trip to Adelaide and the one thing that I found about Adelaide is it’s like a big country town but so friendly. I thought Brisbane was friendly, but Adelaide is kind of even…

Andrew: Did you say Nicole?

Vicki: Yes, I did say Nicole.

Andrew: Because she’s a retailer.

Vicki: She is, Critters Creations.

Andrew: Critters Creations.

Vicki: Thanks for not making me say that again. Crazy Critters. I just had, when I was doing that live video, I had in my head Crazy Critters, so I could not get Critters Creations out, because Crazy Critters is just near us, is one of those play centres. And that’s what was going through my head. And it’s a bit like that Bridget Jones’s Diary, she said don’t say, when she had to introduce Tits, don’t say Tits Furbottom, or whatever his name was. Actually say his real name. That’s what was going through my head. I’m like, I can’t actually pronounce her business name. But anyway. But Adelaide…

Vashti: Adelaide’s gorgeous.

Vicki: It really is. And the weather wasn’t too bad. And the people down there, really just next level friendly. And I think it’s because it has got that whole country town vibe.

Andrew: Is it also because Qantas gave you alcohol on the plane on the way home?

Vicki: That’s the way home. I didn’t actually take them up on it on the way down.

Andrew: Oh, didn’t you?

Vicki: No.

Vashti: No, because she had to drive from the airport.

Vicki: No, I didn’t.

Vashti: Oh, didn’t you?

Vicki: No, no, Hayley was my chauffer. It’s amazing.

Andrew: Didn’t you just walk? It’s a country town, it’s just across the road, isn’t it?

Vicki: No, it’s a 20 minute drive. No, it was a little bit too far.

Andrew: That’s not a country town.

Vashti: I actually think Adelaide’s a little bit like Brisbane was 10 or 15 years ago.

Andrew: So give a shout out to a couple of the companies who are doing baby shows. What was the baby show you just did?

Vicki: We just did the Pregnancy Babies and Children’s Expo.

Andrew: Excellent.

Vicki: So there was Peapods and Real Nappies and…

Vashti: Gro-Via.

Vicki: Grow-Via and Bam Booty and Bubblebubs.

Vashti: Hippybottomus.

Vicki: Hippybottomus, yes. Love the girls from Hippy’s, they’re so friendly. Yeah, there were seven of us. And Leanne from Baby Behinds came in to visit me to say hi. Which is really nice. It’s such a nice industry that we can be essentially fierce competitors if you like, and work together as a whole to grow cloth nappy use.

Vashti: That’s the whole premise behind this Australian Nappy Association.

Vicki: And behind the podcast as well. Grow cloth nappy use.

Vashti: So it’s all about…

Vicki: Working together.

Vashti: …working together. I know Renee from Cloth Nappies Downunder contacted me recently. I’ve done it to her as well, if I’ve accidentally oversold something, I’ll give Renee a quick call and ask her if she’s got that product and she’ll get it to me for my customer. And she’s done it for me, so we quite regularly piggyback off each other. I know I’ve actually shared orders from the U.S. with some of my competitors as well, to cut down on costs, because shipping is really big from the U.S.

Andrew: Shipping seems to be the most expensive part of anything.

Vashti: I worked our recently on a recent order, and the shipping cost was just over 20% of the order. And so…

Vicki: Yep, I would say if you’re air freighting in particular, I really hate air freighting out of China. But with the recent kind of blow out, lead time blow outs, we’ve been air freighting again. And I’m talking 16 and 18 parcels where it’s costing $1,500 to $2,000, U.S. to air freight stuff.

Vashti: You could actually fly there for cheaper.

Vicki: Well I did actually, but OK, note to self, if you’re ever going to try and use your kids…

Vashti: Baggage allowance.

Vicki: …luggage allowance to bring stock back, take into consideration that seven years olds, whilst they might have a 30 kilo luggage allowance, they physically cannot drag that, and we all had a big bag, the carryon luggage and a backpack, and yeah, just didn’t go quite how I had predicted.

Andrew: Some of us had two big bags.

Vicki: Well, ended up with two big bags, because we had little kids that couldn’t manage the bags.

Andrew: And then to make it harder, the wheel broke off one.

Vashti: Oh no.

Vicki: Yeah, Star Wars.

Andrew: My Star Wars bag broke.

Vicki: Damn.

Vashti: [gasps]

Andrew: Going through this shoddy parking lot outside the train station. What town was that?

Vicki: That was in Shanghai.

Andrew: Shanghai. So today’s topic is, how to spot a China cheapy.

Vicki: OK.

Andrew: In other words, how to make sure you get your money’s worth, and you’re not, because we know that there’s some out there now that are actually got the price of a good nappy but they’re actually China cheapies.

Vicki: This is actually not a ragging on China cheapies kind of episode, because I actually feel that they do have a place in the market.

Vashti: Oh, they’ve got a very important place. But I think it’s also about the fact that it is getting harder to spot a China cheapy. It used to be the fact that you could tell a China cheapy easily by the type of inserts. They were normally microfibre or charcoal bamboo or something like that. These days you’re getting rebranded China cheapies that actually have bamboo inserts. So it is harder to spot a China cheapy, so if you’re looking for an ethical brand…

Vicki: And look, I’m not even against rebranded China cheapies. It’s about pretending to be something that you’re not. That’s actually where my, that’s the crossover. I don’t, whilst I have my own opinions on ethical production and stuff like that, they’re my opinions, and unless I’m the one physically buying your nappies and earning the money, I don’t have a say in what somebody purchases. I just do my own.

Andrew: So what is a China cheapy?

Vicki: Do you want to go with that, because I actually couldn’t spot a China cheapy to save my life. Because to me, a China cheapy, all I really know about, if I was looking at one, is that they’ve got rye snaps down the front, and they will do up with snaps across. You know, like they’re front snapping.

Vashti: The best way to describe a China cheapy is pretty much somebody has gone to a manufacturer in China and they’ve picked certain features off a card, going to a restaurant and picking certain vegetables to put into your salad. You sit there and go yes, I want two rows of waist snaps, and I want a hip snap, and I want three rows of rye snaps, and I want squared off tabs or rounded tabs, and I want a pocket opening at the front, or a pocket opening at the back, or I want clip in inserts and stuff like that. So I want a suede cloth versus a micro suede as the lining. I want a double leg gusset versus a single leg gusset.

Vicki: But they’re pretty much, they’re the same shape, size and pattern design. They’re not designed from the ground up. That’s the big difference.

Vashti: Yeah, so a China cheapy is basically…

Vicki: A generic…

Vashti: …it’s a generic brand. So there’s just slight differences here and there because the factory that produces them says this is our pattern, but we can make these alterations to it. So yeah.

Andrew: So the difference isn’t the price anymore, is it?

Vicki: Used to be easy to spot because they were cheap, but now we’re getting the situation where a lot of China cheapies or rebranded China cheapies are kind of priced mid range, so around the $20 mark.

Vashti: Even up to $25 sometimes. I’ve seen some around the $28, $29 mark.

Vicki: So it just makes it that little bit harder to know what you’re getting.

Andrew: But if you’re buying in bulk, you can get most of the name brands almost down to that price, can’t you?

Vashti: Oh, definitely.

Andrew: If you buy your whole stash at a time, say you bought 24 nappies, you’re paying almost that anyway.

Vicki: Yeah, generally most 24 packs would be somewhere between 20 to 30% off the R.R.P. of a single nappy. Definitely.

Andrew: So if you can buy them in bulk, you can get a good nappy for almost the same price.

Vicki: Yeah, the Catch 22 with that, and this is where multi brand retailers really come in handy, is dropping a lot of coin on 24 of a single nappy…

Andrew: Twenty four of exactly the same nappy.

Vicki: …of exactly the same nappy, it is…

Vashti: And especially if your baby hasn’t been born yet.

Vicki: Yeah, it’s a risk, it’s a risk, and we see that all the time at expos. There’s very much, there’s a couple of different people. There’s a couple of different types of customers that come to expos. So there’s those that research, there’s those that just want to give a trial pack a go, of a couple of different brands, see what works for them and then go back and get more. And then there’s the others that say please just tell me what you’ve got, how it works and here’s my money. Just tell me. And one thing which is stupid from a business perspective, but this is where the ethics kind of cross over, you get somebody who comes into the expo and doesn’t really know anything about cloth. There have been times when they haven’t even considered cloth, and then within, after spending an hour with someone they’re dropping $1,000 on a birth to toddler pack. And as I’m a single brand retailer, I’ve just got my products. That, I actually, I kind of get a little bit nervous because I think wow, that’s a lot of trust you’ve just put in me. So I’m a little bit proud at the same time. Wow, you trust me enough to do that. But it’s also a lot of coin. I don’t just walk around, actually I do, I do with a coffee machine. I did just drop two and a half grand. But I knew Breville as a brand.

Andrew: But on the other hand, all of the big retailers, including you, do offer money back guarantees.

Vashti: No, they don’t.

Vicki: No, they don’t.

Vashti: We offer a money back guarantee, it’s actually just us.

Andrew: It’s just us?

Vashti: No other brand actually offers that.

Andrew: So someone who drops $1,000 with you for nappies, you know that if one of those nappies doesn’t work, and they want their money back on the rest, then you do that?

Vicki: Yeah, yeah. They can try one. Because look, I have confidence in my product and I know what my product is, and I really don’t want to get too much into this, because I want to keep this unbranded. But I have that confidence, so we have a money back guarantee, and I’d actually like to see other brands pick up on that too. Back your product, because you know, in that particular instance, a customer has the opportunity to save a lot of money, to get a good quality brand, save a lot of money by basically investing from the get go, and how we work it is you can try one. So one of your nappies, wash it, wear it, all of that sort of stuff. And if it doesn’t work for you, you can return the one used and anything else that hasn’t been used for a full refund. I’d love to see that industry wide, because it takes the fear out. Huggies can handle a sample. You can’t get that with cloth nappies. So we brought it in, just to back ourselves more than anything.

Andrew: I’ll ask one more question before I move on. How many do you get back?

Vicki: Next to none. Next to none.

Andrew: So is that a good way to look for a good nappy brand? Other brands offer that as well. Look for a brand that backs themselves, and if you’re not happy with the nappy, you can send it back.

Vashti: I think that’s a really hard one to answer because…

Vicki: That’s a business thing.

Vashti: …yeah, that’s a business decision that Vicki’s made. I don’t think it’s that other brands don’t back themselves. I know that every nappy that I stock, I back. It’s a nappy that I would be prepared to use on my own kids, or I’ve already used on my kids. We’re very particular about the brands that we stock. If I don’t get the chance to use it for myself, I actually send it out with tried and tested customers. I’ve got a range of customers that I’ve had as customers for several years.

Vicki: Hi, Hayley.

Vashti: And Sonia.

Andrew: Do you call them your crash test dummies?

Vashti: No. Even Vanessa. Vanessa hasn’t been a customer of mine for long. Her little boy Xavier is only a few months old. But I got to know Vanessa quite well through her pregnancy. She was regularly coming in, regularly talking to me, she got all the information. And when I wanted to try a certain brand of nappy, I knew that that particular one would suit her, because of what she’d been looking for. So I knew she’d be able to give me a really good review on it.

Vicki: So you mean if you actually had somebody come to you with a night nappy that had 35 million layers, you would hand that on to Sonia, and say Sonia, can you try this one please?

Vashti: Yes, well I’ve actually got a couple of, I’m actually in the process of trialling a brand at the moment. We got a couple of nappies in from this particular brand, and there’s certain qualities in that nappy that I think would have suited Sonia very well, because her little boy is a massive wetter. She’s actually going through medical diagnosis with him at the moment, and she does have a medically diagnosed reason for him being such a large wetter. But he would wet through, I watched her change him in the store, and within half an hour she had to change him again, because his pants were dripping. And when she took off the nappy, I’m like, you’re sure it wasn’t ill fitted or anything? How could he have wet. She goes, no, feel it. And she handed me the nappy and the wet bag, and it was drenched. So yeah, I sent this particular nappy to her to try because of the certain features in it, and the materials that were used. And she’s actually gone and bought another one from that brand, she liked it that much. But that’s the thing, we are particular about the brands, so we do put them through a lot of testing. So whereas I think with a typical China cheapy, it’s very much from the card, most of your ethical brands have been designed by the brand owner, or if the brand has changed hands, they’ve been designed by a mum on their kitchen table, and that mum has sewn those nappies herself and build that business herself.

Vicki: And made tweaks on the nappy. I know I can talk from personal experience. You make tweaks on the nappy based on customer feedback. And over and over, even now, I still tweak nappies now.

Vashti: Well you just made upgrades to the Bam-bam, what, 18 months ago, if that? You increased the size of the booster in the Bam-bam.

Vicki: It was only about 20%. It wasn’t the Pebbles, they’re a fairly new thing. A couple of runs ago, we increased the capacity, increased the…

Vashti: The absorbency.

Vicki: The absorbency. We dropped the booster width down, because we were having some issues where it would just, you know, it was only just the overlocking width that we dropped the booster down, but we increased the, from a 340 G.S.M. to a 420 G.S.M. in shell, so we still had the same absorbency within the whole nappy. And that’s the difference with a nappy that is created from the ground up, I can tell you all of the reasons that we have done that. Why we have legs rolling in, why we do this, why we do that, why we’ve got snaps, why we’ve got Velcro. Whereas when you’re reading off a card, you don’t have that underlying sewing knowledge, I guess, or design knowledge.

Vashti: It’s also, and this is probably where one of the hard things comes in. It’s not to say that the people, the brands who do the rebranded China cheapies and things like that, don’t have the knowledge of their product, they do have the knowledge of their product, but they don’t have the knowledge on how their product is made, and they can’t make massive changes to it. They’ve pretty much got to stick with that basic pattern, and they can’t just make those small tweaks. Cut the size of the booster down by just the overlocking width and stuff like that. They can make tweaks to it by changing the inserts and by changing the absorbency and stuff like that.

Vicki: But what you tend to find is with China cheapies in particular, the generic pattern has, well not already been, but it has been tweaked to already cut corners. That’s the other thing with the China cheapy is they cut corners. It’s all about making them fast, making them cheap, and basically the process is super speedy. And it is about cutting corners. That’s the big difference between a China cheapy and a better quality brand, is all of those things that we, as I said, the layer of bamboo that we put inside the Pebble, the reason we do that is just in case anything, because it’s a newborn nappy, if anything misses the booster, it’s going to go straight onto the shell. Now I know newborn poo is liquid, and that can potentially seep through the P.U.L. So we put a layer of bamboo in there. So it’s those sorts of things that get cut out of China cheapies, to make them cheap.

Vashti: Yeah.

Vicki: Pretty much.

Vashti: Very much.

Vicki: Not that I don’t know a hell of a lot about China cheapies, I just know…

Vashti: And they’re cheaper because the research and development hasn’t gone into them.

Vicki: And there’s no licencing print. It costs an absolute fortune for us to licence our designs, and we don’t even use exclusive licences. Because if we were to use exclusive licences, it would put the…

Vashti: …nappies over $50 each.

Vicki: Well maybe not quite, but certainly because we don’t do, OK, so let’s say Disney does a run of fabric or a run of products, they’re doing like tens of thousands or millions of products even. So the licence fee per unit is quite inexpensive. But when we’re only doing 1,000 units per design, and you’re spending $1,000 on your artist fees, well that’s a dollar a unit. But they’re not paying that, so you can be pretty much guaranteed if it’s a licenced design, like Ariel or, what’s another, Buzz Lightyear or something like that, and you’re seeing it in a nappy, you can be pretty sure that the licence fees haven’t been paid.

Andrew: So let’s move on. Rebranded, versus China cheapies.

Vashti: So China cheapies is things like your Alvas and your Happy Flutes. They’re the ones that you buy off Ali Express, you’re getting them direct from China. And they’re costing you $5 or $7 a shell, plus your inserts and stuff like that.

Vicki: Interestingly, with China cheapies, there’s quite a few different brands. I was talking to my manufacturer when we were over there about the history of it, and how it, it was actually a really cool conversation.

Andrew: Oh yeah, I was listening to that. I was in the back seat. I was listening to that, and he said, who was it that came over?

Vicki: It was Happy Flute and Alva that they were together, they were good friends, and they actually kind of started cloth nappies in China, if you like for lack of a better description, they started producing this, I can’t remember what the original nappy knock off was, was it a Thirsty or something? Or was it a Rumperoos.

Vashti: Thirsties is a very well known and a good brand in the U.S.

Vicki: No, I’m just talking about the generic China cheapy design is based on a well known brand.

Vashti: Bum Genius.

Vicki: Bum Genius, yep. So they were the first to produce it, and then they had a parting of the ways, and Alva is down in southern China in Guangzhou, and Happy Flute are more up northern China. So for starters, that’s why Happy Flute is more expensive than Alva, because you can read between the lines, I don’t have any proof, I can only go on conversations that I’ve had, and Andrew was witness to those conversations as well…

Vashti: Well we had the same conversations when we were there two years ago.

Vicki: Exactly. In Guangzhou, that is where a lot of your Chinese fashion comes from, and it is still quite rampant to have kids in the factory, and slave, pretty much slave wages, things like that.

Vashti: Fast fashion.

Vicki: It is fast fashion, down in Guangzhou. So if you’re purchasing from, but I can’t tell you without a shadow of a doubt. We tried.

Vashti: We tried to look at ways of getting in there, and we were pretty much told forget it, you’re not going to get in there.

Vicki: Yeah, it’s not going to happen.

Vashti: And if you do manage to get in there, they actually have showroom factories.

Vicki: They do, they do.

Vashti: So they bring you through a showroom factory that is all above board. This is what we’ve been told, and it looks nice, and it looks like it meets all of the criteria that you want, but the real factory is actually…

Vicki: Somewhere else.

Vashti: It’s the slum factory type thing.

Vicki: And you know what, this is all hearsay, 100% hearsay based on what we have been told over the years from getting in with, me personally, I build relationships with my manufacturers, and so a lot of the times, I ask a question and then I’ll ask it again a couple of weeks later in a different way. So I kind of get the answer. How many times did I ask pretty much those same sort of questions? It was almost every time I was in the car, but I asked them in a different way. Because it’s like asking a child something. The story will change if it’s a lie, but if it’s the truth, you start adding in more facts. But anyway, back to the story. So Happy Flute and Alva split ways. So Alva is down south, and Happy Flute is up top, and there’s also An An Baby. They’re also up in northern China. We went past their factory actually.

Vashti: Oh really?

Vicki: It surprised me too. And there was one more as well.

Vashti: Is it Happy Baby?

Vicki: Might be, not 100% sure. But what I do know is Alva’s the one that’s down in southern China and they seem to do most of the rebranded China cheapies. So you know what, as I said, that is all 100% hearsay, and you can take from that what you like. Would I stake my life on it? No. Because I haven’t seen it with my own eyes. I can only repeat the conversations that I’ve had.

Andrew: That’s actually not the conversation I was thinking, talking about.

Vicki: Oh, which conversation were you thinking about? The one before or after the accident?

Andrew: Oh yes, we’ve experienced a car accident in China. You know those little bikes that go around? Yeah, sometimes they don’t squeeze between cars.

Vicki: And buses.

Andrew: And buses, yes. It wasn’t even his car.

Vicki: So this is going way, way, way back to kind of 2005-ish. We would, the industry was very, very young then and we would co-op fabric.

Vashti: That was the time when the industry was mums working at their kitchen table and having six month wait lists.

Vicki: Yes, literally.

Vashti: And if you managed, if one of those businesses, like Vicki from Bubblebubs, Sue from Itty Bitty, Davina from Baby Behinds, if they managed to get a bulk lot of nappies done, they would have it go up on their website and be sold out within five minutes. It was hyena days.

Vicki: It was hyena days, we used to call them the hyena days.

Vashti: What about you, I think we’ve mentioned it before, you had a customer…

Vicki: I had someone pinging my site, waiting for me to do a stock in.

Andrew: Every minute.

Vashti: Her husband had created an app to ping your site.

Andrew: No idea how much that used to cost us in memory though, in space.

Vicki: Exactly, and sites would crash and all sorts of stuff. So this was back before pretty much anyone was manufacturing offshore. So what would happen is we’d be able to get the fabric, so the only way, actually no, sorry, Gab from, can’t think, her business isn’t around anymore, but she was the first to bring in hemp fabric. So we’re talking hemp, this is way before bamboo even. And so what would happen is I’d go and buy a roll, because Gab was just up the road from me, and we’d co-op it. So we’d all go in to buy the roll of fabric, and I’d just cut it up and ship it out to everyone. And what happened with Sue was she was a bit too stingy, and actually cut her nappies a bit too short, too small. And that’s how Itty Bitty became a super trim nappy. It was from an accident. But I wouldn’t say I taught her how to sew nappies, but certainly we had spent a lot of time together discussing different ways to make nappies and stuff. But Davina from Baby Behinds was the first to go offshore and have the nappies produced. And she had them made in a hat factory actually.

Vashti: Oh really? I didn’t know that.

Vicki: Yeah, it wasn’t a traditional textile factory, it was a hat factory.

Vashti: I did know, Davina was actually a RAAF wife, her husband was in the RAAF up in Townsville, and he left the RAAF because Baby Behinds started doing so well. So he actually came to work for Davina. So that was way before Andrew came to work for you.

Vicki: It was. Completely. And she did, she really took off. And Sue went over not long after that.

Andrew: You know in the early days I used to cut the nappies.

Vashti: Yeah, I know, but you weren’t getting paid for it.

Vicki: Not in money.

Andrew: That’s true, that’s true.

Vicki: Now I’d give him 90 bucks a week. So I don’t have to pull it out.

Vashti: Is that all he’s worth?

Andrew: You’ve got to stop putting it next to the bed though. It gives the wrong sort of…

Vicki: Yeah, so then Sue went over to teach. The one thing Sue and I had very much in common is we’re both absolute perfectionists, and we’ve both been sewing, well I think so, Sue had been sewing as long, I’d been sewing since I was eight. And my mum’s a dressmaker.

Vashti: I used to work for Sue. Sue I was her expo manager.

Vicki: I know she was a perfectionist.

Vashti: She is still a perfectionist.

Vicki: See, the difference with cloth nappies in Australia versus the States, is America still has, they still have a big manufacturing sector, and same with Canada and Mexico and what have you. And look that is honestly due to their terrible labour minimum wage. Whereas in Australia, we’re a lot tighter on that. That’s just the reality of it, that’s why we can’t manufacture in Australia.

Vashti: It’s interesting, because a lot of my U.S. brands, they are very proud of the fact that their products are manufactured in the U.S. They’re manufactured onshore, so they are supporting, it’s an American brand, made by Americans, sold in America. And so yeah. Although I am looking at a Canadian brand at the moment. Are they Canadian? They might not be Canadian, they might be U.S., I don’t know.

Andrew: Do you want to mention the brand, or you’re not ready yet?

Vashti: Well, I don’t know, [beep] listening?

Vicki: Maybe one of your competitors is listening, and now they’re going to go, oh my God, who is this?

Vashti: Actually no, you better cut that out, I’m not ready to release that information yet. Cut that out.

Andrew: OK, let’s go back a little bit and I’ll ask you the question again. Rebranded versus China cheapies.

Vashti: We’ve pretty much covered what a China cheapy is. So a rebranded China cheapy is pretty much exactly the same thing, but somebody gets their own label put on it and they might get their own prints done. So they’ll either pick the stock standard prints and colours that the factory offers, or they’ll bring in their own…

Vicki: Digital printing has really helped with that, because you can get minimum orders, I think 50, 100 metres now, which is like six nappies, 6 by 300 nappies, 300 odd nappies per print.

Vashti: That’s a really good way of doing it.

Vicki: That’s making it harder to be able to spot, because they’re no longer just a generic…

Vashti: And they can employ, they can get their own prints, they can get their own artists to design prints for them. They can pick prints off Spoonflower. And have them sent over in a digital format.

Vicki: No different to what we do. I go, here’s a fun fact everyone probably knows. I go on Instagram. I find most of my artists on Instagram. I’m looking for an artist. I’m looking for someone who is on brand with what I’m actually doing. So that has really opened up the market with China cheapies. They can do exactly the same thing.

Vashti: And a rebranded China cheapy may also, well I have noticed that some of the stock standard China cheapies are now giving you the option to upgrade your inserts. Traditionally a China cheapy insert was a microfibre or a charcoal bamboo…

Vicki: …charcoal bamboo.

Vashti: …now just to make it clear, charcoal bamboo doesn’t actually have bamboo in it. It’s a layer of fleece with microfibre inside. But that was, that’s your stock standard insert with a China cheapy. Some China cheapies are now offering you a bamboo upgrade, like a three layer bamboo.

Vicki: Even Alva do that now, I’m sure they do a five layer bamboo.

Vashti: Yeah, they do a five layer bamboo.

Vicki: Because they’ve learned. They’ve learned that that’s what the customer wants.

Vashti: But your rebranded are actually starting to do their own inserts. So they’re starting to custom make or to request specific products in their inserts and a specific way of having their inserts made.

Vicki: OK, I’m going to play devil’s advocate here. So with that in mind, then does it matter that this nappy is now $28 if it’s got upgraded inserts? Is it more the whole ethical manufacture that, like I said, do people have issues with…

Vashti: You know what, it actually doesn’t matter what nappy you use, because literally they’re designed to catch poo and wee. I think it comes down to more…

Vicki: Knowing what you’re buying?

Vashti: …knowing what you’re buying. Knowing that if you’re spending $28 on a rebranded China cheapy, jump up to $30, $35 and you’re supporting a mum or dad who have designed the nappy from the ground up.

Vicki: And are paying licencing fees and are paying the workers well. Yeah, you’re right, it’s the whole chain.

Vashti: It is, it’s not just about the end product. Yes, the end product, the $35 nappy works the same as the $5 nappy. They catch poo and week.

Vicki: Longevity wise?

Vashti: The $5 you might need to change a little bit more frequently and it’s probably not going to see you all the way through because the elastics aren’t quite as good, the P.U.L.’s not as thick. That sort of thing. The $35 nappy you’d be wanting it to last…

Vicki: Birth to toddler. A birth to toddler nappy should…

Vashti: And if not into a second child, if you’ve got a decent sized stash. If you’ve got a stash of 20 nappies and you’re using, washing every single day, the chances of them seeing you a second child aren’t going to happen.

Vicki: Having said that, well I know the expectations that I have with my nappies is that they will see a second and third and fourth child, with minor repairs, like elastic. I would not expect elastic to last four children. I’m not saying it won’t, because I’ve seen some of my nappies that are nine years old. However, I expect them to be in a reasonable to condition to be able to reach that…

Vashti: I’ve got some of your all in ones that are eleven years old. Yes, they need elastics repaired, but the nappy itself is in immaculate condition.

Vicki: That’s right, as soon as you repair the elastics you have a brand new nappy. That’s my expectation of a quality nappy versus, it’s that whole throw away society, isn’t it? It’s the difference between buying a Smeg and I can’t think of a really cheap, an L.G. as an example.

Vashti: But then I just bought an L.G. vacuum cleaner and it’s pretty damn good.

Vicki: It wasn’t the right, I can’t actually think of, I probably picked the wrong type of appliance. OK, so a Kogan versus a Smeg. So you would expect the Kogan one, you pay $100 for, OK, let’s go air fryers, so you pay $100 for a Kogan air fryer, and you pay $400 for a Philips air fryer. You would expect the Philips air fryer to be lasting you a heck of a lot longer than the $100 one, because it’s designed as a throw away product. That’s pretty much what a China cheapy is. It’s designed as a throw away product. I can’t talk for other brands, I know I can talk for my brand, that our products aren’t designed as a throw away product. They’re designed to be repaired and passed on.

Andrew: Every time I hear somebody talk about Smeg, I think that the guys who created that company must be really, really big…

Vicki: Red Dwarf fans. I know. I knew he was going to go down a Red Dwarf path. I should have gone Bosch.

Andrew: If you don’t know what a Red Dwarf is, as your husband.

Vashti: We just bought a Smeg dishwasher on the weekend…

Vicki: And that’s why I picked it, by the way, we were just talking.

Vashti: …ours has died. You know, a slow death, but it’s died, and so we decided it was time to upgrade. And my other half chose the Smeg over the Bosch because it was a Smeg. That was it. He was like, I’ve got to have it because it’s Smeg.

Vicki: Seriously, don’t even, if you don’t know what that is, just wipe it from your brain. There is no need to know. Oh no…

Andrew: So any other subjects you want to cover?

Vashti: I think as long as you know what you’re buying. So don’t buy an Alva or a Happy Flute or any one of a myriad of rebranded China cheapies that are on the market, and expect it to have the same quality as a Baby Behinds and Itty Bitty, a Bubblebubs, a Thirsties or a Rumperoos. There are so many other amazing brands on the market. And really, once you do all the upgrades and pay for your postage and stuff like that, the price difference isn’t that much. Especially if you’re looking at buying 24 Alvas versus 24 Econaps, you can get, yes it’s still going to be more expensive to get the Econaps, but you can get the price of the Econaps down quite nicely, or any of your major brands…

Andrew: By buying in bulk.

Vicki: By buying in bulk.

Vashti: By buying in bulk. And there’s lots of ways to buy in bulk as well. There’s all of the buy now pay later schemes that are available.

Vicki: Also this is where I didn’t go with the multi-brand retailer, is they can do up packs of 24 different nappies. That’s a huge thing. That’s a huge bonus that a multi-brand retailers has over a single brand. I can only sell you 24 of a single product.

Andrew: An actual shop is actually going to have the nappy so you can touch it and feel it, and you’ll be able to tell pretty much straight away which is the quality nappy and which isn’t.

Vicki: And unfortunately, going back to the baby expos, unfortunately it generally tends to be brands that are at expos because they’re so expensive, they’re more a marketing exercise than a sales funnel, or anything like that. So to get a multi-brand retailer to actually have a stand at the expo is unrealistic, which is why I actively encourage my multi-brand retailers to run, either run the stalls or be on the stalls so they can answer those questions. If someone wants a pocket nappy, I don’t make a pocket nappy. I can’t help you. But I can say, well on the weekend, Hayley or Nicole sell pocket nappies. Let me go grab one of them and they can answer your questions for you. There’s a lot to be said about, instead of going direct to the brand, go to a retailer.

Vashti: The retailers, we deal with a myriad of brands. And we don’t just deal with the brands that we sell. We also deal with brands that we’ve sold in the past. We deal with brands that our customer have brought into us and said can you give me a hand with the fitting of this? Look, I bought this online, I bought it second hand, and I’m just not getting a great fit. And we can look at it and go that’s because your elastics have gone. Do you mind if I have a quick look at that nappy? I haven’t seen that brand before, I’d really be interested in seeing it. So we deal with a wide range of nappies, so we have a greater understanding of what is available on the market.

Andrew: And you tend to not stock anything that you’re not happy with.

Vashti: No, definitely. As I said before, I’m very particular about the brands I stock. It’s got to be something that I’ve used on my own kids. It’s got to be something that I would be prepared to put on my own child.

Andrew: It’s all prepared to put on your own child now, because all your kids are out of nappies.

Vashti: Yeah, all my kids are out of nappies.

Andrew: Unless you’re looking to have another one?

Vashti: No. No, this…

Andrew: You don’t want to make that announcement?

Vashti: …this shop is closed.

Andrew: We’re not going to break any new news or anything like that?

Vicki: Let’s have another baby, Andrew.

Andrew: Sure, you just have to go and find somebody else.

Vicki: I just got a pass. Ryan Reynolds.

Vashti: No, Brent’s had the snip, there is definitely no more babies.

Andrew: Well I didn’t want to make this public as well, but me too.

Vicki: You never got tested.

Andrew: No, I never got tested.

Vashti: Well, I didn’t think Brent did, but apparently he did.

Vicki: Yeah, but see I pay him now. I don’t have to worry. We were talking about wages before. I pay you now. I used to have to pay you in other ways. I don’t have to anymore.

Andrew: Oh, that’s right, yes.

Vashti: But you still don’t leave it by the bed.

Vicki: No.

Andrew: I’m so much more comfortable now you’re putting it into my bank account. I feel like a real paid person. Any other things you want to touch on, ladies?

Vashti: Just make sure you know what you’re buying. And if you…

Vicki: Ask. Ask.

Vashti: And if you are buying a China cheapy, that’s fine, it’s great because you’re putting a cloth nappy on your baby’s bottom, and that is fantastic.

Vicki: But don’t actually, there is a little bit of a stigma that comes with China cheapies, but you know what?

Vashti: Who cares.

Vicki: You have to just be confidence in your own decisions, and this is why we focus so much on education. It’s not about bagging out a particular brand or a particular style or anything like that. It’s about giving you, empowering you with the knowledge to make the right choice for your family. And as I said earlier, if you’re, whoever is doing the nappy changes and the washing is…

Vashti: And paying the bills.

Vicki: …and paying bills, they’re the ones that make the choice, not anybody else, and be damned with anybody else’s judgement.

Vashti: It’s no-one else’s business, absolutely none. But if you are buying a China cheapy, have realistic expectations on it. That’s the main thing. Is just have those realistic expectations on what your nappy is capable of doing, and if you aren’t sure, ask someone. I’m always happy to answer questions. Send me a message on Facebook or Instagram. Send a message through to Nappy Leaks and Andrew will forward it to me or Vicki. It’s not an issue, and we’ll give you a rounded and honest answer, and it will be a non-judgemental answer. I don’t care, as long as you’re using a cloth nappy. And even then…

Vicki: Depends on the question. If you want to know a style or particular brands, send it to Vashti. If you want to know composition and stuff like that, that’s my forte. The actual making and what works and what doesn’t work, versus different brands and styles, which is your forte.

Vashti: And whenever I get a question about how a nappy is made, I always say, I’ll get back to you, and I ask Vicki. Or I ask one of my other manufacturers, because they’re the ones that are doing it for a living. I’m in the front, selling for a living.

Vicki: So if you need a salesperson, get Vashti on your team.

Andrew: OK girls, I think we’ll finish it up then. Love your work. Thank you Vashti.

Vashti: Thanks, Andrew.

Andrew: Thank you, Vashti. Thank you, Vicki.

Vicki: Thanks, Andrew.

Andrew: Bye.


Andrew: Vicki Simpson is a wife and mother to three children, President of the Australian Nappy Association and owner and founder of Bubblebubs. Vicki has been making and selling cloth nappies through her website for 15 years. Bubblebubs is now one of the most recognised and awarded cloth nappy brands in Australia, and is currently expanding to other countries. You can find out more and contact her through her website, Vashti Wadwell is mother to three children and has been using cloth nappies for 13 years. She is the owner of Australia’s first cloth nappy store, Nest Nappies, located in Brisbane, Australia. She can be contacted through her website, If you would like to give us feedback, go to If you are finding this podcast helpful, the way to thank us is to leave feedback in the iTunes store or wherever you listen to podcasts. I am your host, Andrew Simpson.


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#35 Questions and Answers Live April 2019

Nappy Leaks is recorded in front of a live studio audience. I always wanted to say that, but I do have a few corrections. We were not in a studio we were in the office of Bubblebubs and the studio audience was 12 and 50% of those were babies. But it was fun doing this series of live show were the audience asked Vicki and Vashti all the questions.

Transcript: Questions and answers live April 2019

Andrew: Welcome to Nappy Leaks with Vicki Simpson and Vashti Wadwell. How are you doing, Vicki?

Vicki: I’m good, Andrew, how are you?

Andrew: I’m excellent. How are you doing, Vashti?

Vashti: Wonderful, thanks Andrew.

Andrew: Excellent, and we have another guest. We have Catherine. Hi Catherine.

Catherine: Hi. 

Andrew: How are you?

Catherine: Yeah, well thank you. Thanks for having me along.

Andrew: You’re a teacher.

Catherine: I am a teacher. Yes indeed.

Andrew: Tell us about being a teacher. [background laughter]

Catherine: Vicki will be glad to know that I’m not a high school teacher. I teach Prep actually.

Vashti: We’ve got two teachers in the room today. 

Catherine: [inaudible word, 00:44] Teacher represent!

Vashti: Oh three, sorry.

Catherine: That’s all right, we understand bureaucracy too. 

Andrew: So you’re still learning about the cloth nappy world?

Catherine: Yeah, we’re only eight weeks into our journey, so still feeling like we’re finding our feet, but it’s been really great, and Vashti gets visits from me, I think even before Theodore was born she was getting multiple visits from me going so, what do we do about this? and what about this? It’s been really good to be able to navigate alongside someone who knows what they’re talking about.

Andrew: Nice. Well, I’ll let you ask your first question.

Catherine: Alright, so my questions are very kind of nappy and fit specific. Obviously it’s what we’re experiencing in the early days. I’ve got a very chunky boy here…

Jenna: No!

Catherine: Yeah, no.

Jenna: He’s gorgeous, the rolls are beautiful.

Catherine: Eight weeks, seven kilos. So chunking up. So what are some good tricks with getting a fit for the snapped one size fits all? Or Candies, let’s be honest, that’s what we’re talking about, when his legs seem to be kind of between snap sizes.

Vicki: Do you do more fit… do you want to take it, or do you want me to take it?

Vashti: Well it’s about Candies, so you take it.

Vicki: OK, what I find is, and I did a video on Ryan. I really need to redo that video, and Jenna will just write it down now, because that’s what she does. I did a fit video on Ryan. What I find actually is running your fingers along the elastic to actually move, it kind of moves the bunchiness of the elastic into kind of right around, to get it more into the groin. That’s what I find is by far, the easiest. And as long as the marks aren’t super nasty red, a lot of, what we actually find is a lot of people get an underwear type mark and go oh my God, I’m getting really bad red marks. And you look at it and the nappy is on super loose, and marks are normal. Red marks are normal. Deep red welts are not normal. If you liken it to your own underwear, or wearing a pair of tights…

Vashti: A pair of tights or jeans. A red mark isn’t going to hurt. It’s like when we wear bras, because let’s face it, most of us listening to this podcast are mums.

Vicki: I’ve got a bra on today.

Vashti: Woo hoo.

Jenna: Vicki’s checked. 

Vicki: But if you’ve got a red mark from your own clothing, if you get red marks from your nappies, it’s a similar sort of mark. If the mark from your nappies is welted, if the skin is broken, or if that mark doesn’t disappear by the next nappy change, then we’ve got a problem. Or if their toes turn blue. If their toes turn blue, the nappy is on too tight.

Catherine: Yeah, I think early on that was daunting, and even my husband was like, it’s too tight, I can’t put it on him any tighter. And I’m like no, you’ve got to really get in there. And I think that was a big thing, building confidence and seeing that…

Vicki: They’re not breakable.

Catherine: That Teddy’s response was, he was quite comfortable with it, and wasn’t complaining and that kind of helped me to be reassured that I wasn’t harming him in any way.

Vicki: He certainly will let you know if he is not happy. There is no, it’s a bit like being in labour. Not that I’ve even been in labour, because too posh to push three times, apparently. But you know, when you’re in labour and I think I’m in labour, and then oh yeah. OK, yeah, this is labour, yeah. And it’s the same thing. Bub will certainly let you know if it’s too tight. But I do find running your, and any nappy, front snap, side snap, front Velcro. Running your finger along that elastic line, it just moves the elastic out a little bit. Another hint is with any of your nappies, to actually stretch the rise. So put your palm on, at the top of the nappy and actually stretch it. And that kind of evens the elastic out. So that can help a lot. 

Catherine: That’s good. Now, I have found videos about replacing Candies elastic, and I can be really bold with some of my second hand ones that I picked up and doing that. Can you do the same thing with Bam Bams? I haven’t opened one up to have a look, but also, they’re overlocked, so I was curious what that would look like.

Vicki: You will need some way of resealing. So you’ll either need to zigzag or re-overlock. Because you’ll either, look, the lazy way to do it is to cut it off. Cut the overlocking off. That is hands down the quickest way to do it, because you just cut it on one side. Actually, I cut it on both sides, and then you can just get in, take the elastic off, put the new elastic on. Or you can actually unpick the overlocking, which obviously takes a lot longer. But personal preference as to… it’s not going to affect the actual fit. Being a fitted nappy, even if you end up moving the elastic in, like a little bit, to make sure that the…

Vashti: The frill.

Vicki: …the frill is still nice and thick, it’s not going to impact on the function of the nappy, enough for it to be a concern. 

Catherine: And my last question is just, what are the best ways to boost absorbency with the least bulk? At the moment we’re finding that with Teddy just being super chunky but not terribly big, putting the bulk in with the booster means that it’s quite gapey around the leg. And this is hilarious Vashti that I’m looking at you, because we totally were at Nest navigating this only a couple of weeks ago.

Vashti: So it’s really about trying to manoeuvre that absorbency, trying to get the thinnest absorbency you can, and manage it into that position. So trying to get that bulk into the centre and bring the shell out and around it. So there’s no reason why the elastic from the shell of the nappy can’t actually be sitting sort of over the top of the absorbency, almost once it’s on, if that makes sense. It’s really, really weird to try and describe it. But you get the elastic of the shell in on the undie line, and then the shell sort of comes out and around the boosting. Obviously it is really, really hard to boost an all in two, or an all in one nappy, because the more absorbency you put inside the nappy, the further it pushes the shell away from the body, which is one of the reasons why I love fitteds and flats and prefolds, because you can boost those until the cows come home, and a shell goes over the top, and as long as you’ve got the nice fit on the shell, then you’re set, it doesn’t matter. But boosting an all in two or an all in one is a lot harder. Things like microfibre work really good for quick absorption, and they’re generally reasonably trim, a little microfibre booster. But for holding in your absorbency, your cottons and your hemps and your bamboos are a lot better, so all your natural fibres.

Jenna: I’m really loving them…Hello, I’m Vicki now.

Vashti: Sorry, Vicki’s just had to step out.

Jenna: Vicki had to step away and now Vicki is Jenna. I’m really loving at the moment for trim boosting, muslin or birds eye flats.

Vashti: Yeah, they’re great.

Jenna: They pad fold down to the size of your palm, and especially because I’ve got a little boy, you just chuck it in the front and I find that works really, really well for extra absorbency, while being quite trim. And the other thing is of course double gussets. Anything with a double gusset will handle that boosting better. It gives you that different shape to get it around and really handle that boosting. Again for a boy, I assume it would be a little harder for a girl, because you’ve got to get it between the legs, whereas a boy you just chuck it all at the front. You’ve got experience, you’ve had both.

Vashti: Yeah, well yes and no. Girls do pee, we do say try and put your boosting for a girl in the middle, and your boosting for a boy at the front. But that also comes down to, if you’ve got a younger bubby, they’re spending a lot of time on their back, so you do need to get more of your boosting towards the back of the nappy, because when they’re lying on their back, that’s where all the moisture runs.

Jenna: Yep, whichever way gravity goes. 

Vashti: Yeah, once they’re up and moving and stuff like that, yes you do need to get more of your boosting down the bottom of the nappy because they’re up.

Jenna: The great thing with the muslin flats I’m finding is, and this would be quite flexible for a girl and a boy, is I can fold it to the exact width that I’ve got at the front, so you could make it longer and thinner for a girl to get through that crotch without making it too uncomfortable for them.  But I’m just finding them, they’re my favourite at the moment for boosting, because they’re really trim and super absorbent. You can get them bamboo, cotton, whatever you’ve got, all those good options. But I just find they’re really good for trim boosting at the moment. It’s my favourite flavour of the month.

Vashti: And you know what? Something as simple as a face washer folded in half is also a fantastic booster. It’s generally enough to just give you that little bit of extra absorbency that you need, without bulking the nappy too much. So you don’t have to go out and spend masses of money on buying these super dooper fantastic boosters. Use what you’ve got at home. You’ve got old flannelette sheets that have seen better days, chop them up, overlock the edges or…

Jenna: Tea towels that you don’t like anymore that are really absorbent.

Vashti: There you go, cotton tea towels, anything.

Jenna: Big fans of reuse.

Vashti: Anything you’ve got around the house.

Jenna: Big fans of reuse around here, there’s no need to go out and buy a whole bunch. And that was kind of, I had some flats that someone had given me to try out, and I’m not a big flats fan. But I found that for a night nappy, a fitted nappy and then folding that muslin at the front, and that’s all, my son is two, and that’s all he wears at night for 12 hours. Theoretically, except for last night, where he slept three hours. He normally sleeps 12 hours. Putting that at the front, that gets him through the night. So it really is a lot of boosting. So I suppose if you want a day boosting you could even cut those in halves or thirds and get a few uses out of them, they’re flexible in that way.

Vashti: Definitely. 

Jenna: Does that help?

Catherine: Yeah, yeah, that’s helpful. I just disappear, you guys can chat, over it, that’s cool. I actually find using the boosters from the Bam Bams that they’re that little bit thinner, that I’ve actually found they’re useful now we’re in one size fits most nappies, because they work like having a face washer folded in half, so you’re using the collection, what I’ve already got in my stash. 

Jenna: I’ve got a friend who’s just starting and I’ve told her to take all the, most all in twos have a long, a big insert and a small insert, and I’ve told her to take the small inserts out of all the nappies, and if bubba is sleeping longer at night to put them in the front of her fitted nappies for when baby is small. You won’t need those in the nappies until later. Use those for your boosting in your newborn fitted nappies, if bubba is nice enough to sleep for you. 

Andrew: Thank you, Catherine. Now, what advice would you have for new mums?

Catherine: I think the biggest advice, it’s all fairly fresh in my brain, when I was pregnant I’d done so much research, and trying to learn my washing routines and, thank you Amy for helping out with lots of those things. But I think the biggest thing is just try one. Just get one cloth nappy on bub and see how it goes, and the more that you do it, the easier it becomes. I’m not sure that rinsing poo out at the end of each night is getting any easier, but it’s not that unglamorous, and I just found that I was so nervous about it, I just needed to get in there and do it. And my husband was the same. He was so uncertain and the more nappies he changes, the more confident he gets. And we’re in cloth full time now.

Andrew: Cool. As far as washing poo out, just imagine it’s playdough, because that doesn’t smell. 

Vashti: Just say for instance there’s a video where someone washes blue playdough off a nappy. 

Catherine: I could deal with that if it was blue. My problems is, I really like the sweet potato dip, and often when he’s going down for a lunchtime nap, I just grab what I can for lunch to then sit down with him to feed. And sweet potato dip and I just can’t see eye to eye anymore. You get the last bit out of the container with your finger and then you go, I don’t know what that is now. That could be dip…

Jenna: It’s ruined now.

Catherine: …or not. So it’s ruined.

Andrew: That’s one of those foods that comes out the same way it went in.

Catherine: That’s it. 

Andrew: Thank you, Catherine.

Catherine: Thank you very much.

Andrew: Thank you, Vashti.

Vashti: Thanks, Andrew.

Andrew: Thank you…

Jenna: Vicki-Jenna.

Vashti: Hey, thanks Catherine, it was great to see you.

Catherine: That’s alright, thank you.


Andrew: Vicki Simpson is a wife and mother to three children, President of the Australian Nappy Association and owner and founder of Bubblebubs. Vicki has been making and selling cloth nappies through her website for 15 years. Bubblebubs is now one of the most recognised and awarded cloth nappy brands in Australia, and is currently expanding to other countries. You can find out more and contact her through her website, Vashti Wadwell is mother to three children and has been using cloth nappies for 13 years. She is the owner of Australia’s first cloth nappy store, Nest Nappies, located in Brisbane, Australia. She can be contacted through her website, If you would like to give us feedback, go to If you are finding this podcast helpful, the way to thank us is to leave feedback in the iTunes store or wherever you listen to podcasts. I am your host, Andrew Simpson. 


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Bubblebubs BamBam cloth nappies on 7kg nine month old baby

I’m here with baby, who is nine months old and 7.1 kilos. We haven’t seen Matisse in a few months, she was about eight weeks old the last time we saw her. But, I wanted to show you how to fit on some of the nappies that were used early on. Even though Matisse has grown, she’s bigger, she’s a bit more wriggly and a lot more chatty, but I just wanted to show you how those nappies that were used in the newborn days can still be used quite a long way through.

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Bubblebubs Bamboo Stretchy Prefold on nine month old 7kg baby

Today I’m here with baby Matisse who is nine months old and just over seven kilos. We haven’t seen Matisse in a few months but I wanted to come back and show you how she’s grown and how you can still use some of the nappies that we used in those newborn days even though she has put on a few kilos. She’s up looking at the camera now.

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Podcast 30: Pre fold cloth nappies

the versatile pre-fold is pretty much a rectangle of material and it’s got extra absorbency through the centre. It’s broken down into three panels normally. And the centre panel is thicker than the two outside panels.

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Podcast 28: Washing your cloth nappies

Washing your cloth nappies is easy. You have been washing for years with your current washing machine. Washing cloth nappies just needs a few tweaks to your current washing routine. There is a few different angles on the subject and Vicki, Vashti and Jenna go down every rabbit hole.

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Podcast 26: How to survive christmas and the holidays away from home with your baby using cloth nappies.

Lots of people travel home for the holidays. This time when you travel home you are taking a new addition to the family that everyone will want to see, hold, cuddle. But how do you cloth nappy when you’re at someone else’s house? Vashti and Vicki give you some insight to living at someone else’s house with a baby or toddler for an extended period.

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Podcast 24: The top eight reasons people give up cloth nappies.

Some of you after saying that your using cloth nappies get a “Why I gave up on cloth nappies story” I came across a lot of articles on people who gave up using cloth nappies. Most of which were just click-bait, but I did find a lot of reasons people just could not use cloth nappies any more. So I picked a few and threw them at the girls and this is what they had to say.

So next time someone wants to give you one of those stories you can point them at this podcast and maybe help them over the line.

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One Size nappies vs Newborn Nappies

Ever wondered how a newborn nappy differs to a one size nappy in terms of fit? Vashti from Nest Nappies shows you the difference between them in this video. The nappies she is using are the Close Parent Pop In Newborn and One Size All In Twos. Our model in this video is Matisse who is nearly 8 weeks old and 3.5kg.

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Podcast Episode 017: Questions and Answers

Every month after the main podcast is recorded I sometimes manage to keep the girls in front of the microphone just a little longer to answer some listener questions. If you have a question just email them to

Questions we cover this week are.

Everyone is telling me different reasons why nappies are leaking. What are the causes and how do you fix them?

Which are better? All in two or all in one?

I’m really clean to knit some woollen nappy covers, but I’m not sure which type of wool to use. All of the super soft options at the wool shop were super. Can I use these? Do you have any favourite wool brand?

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Podcast Episode 013: Questions and Answers for May

As we are not getting time to answer questions during the episodes, we will be publishing an episode at the end of the month devoted to questions and answers. If you have a problem, you would like Vicki and Vashti to answer go to the contact page at Nappy Leaks

This week’s questions are.

What is the difference between microfleece and microfiber?
Do I need to use liners?
You had a long hose on your squirt, didn’t you?

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Podcast Episode 010: Night Cloth Nappies

Kind of the same and kind of different to day cloth nappies. Night cloth nappies have a whole new range of possibilities and challenges.

Some of the subjects we cover are…

What is the difference between a night nappy and a day cloth nappy?

How many are we going to need?

Do they take longer to dry?

Why do we have a dedicated night cloth nappy?

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How To Fit One Size Fits Most Nappy On A Small Newborn.

Matese is eight weeks old and a little over 3.5kg. This is how a one-size-fits-most nappy will fit.

One-Size-Fits-Most Transcript:

                   Hi, it’s Vashti from Nest Nappies, and today I’m here with baby Matese who is nearly eight weeks old and just over three and a half kilos. Now what I wanted to do today is show you how to fit one size fits most nappy on a small newborn. I’ve got the Pikapu all-in-one here today. The Pikapu all-in-one is one size fits most all-in-one.

                    An all-in-one is just that, one piece, nothing to get lost or confused. It has an adjustable rise through the front, and it does that with Velcro. Now, because Matese is so little, we are going to take those rise snaps down all the way to the bottom setting just like that. Moreover, with this tongue, we’ll probably end up folding it over, but I’ll show you that once we’ve got it on, and you can have a look on how it’s sitting on her.

                    Now, I like to put the nappy up nice and high at the back, so it covers the back crack and makes sure that there are no explosions out the back of your little one. Then, I always like to give it a little bit of a pull out there, to make sure it’s nice and flat. Then we’re going to reach in between Matese’s legs, and as you saw with that fold, I’m going to pop my thumb into that fold on both sides. You can see that there, so I’m just going to slide my thumb in there. We’re just going to pull that up as high as we can, and then we can fold the front of the nappy over.

                    Now, this tongue is way too long, so we’re going to fold that back over. That’s going to give Matese lots of absorbency in the nappy so that she’ll be able to get even longer. Now, we’re going to pull it over. I’m just going to have it nice and flat across her tummy. Then with the wings, I’m just going to pull up and then over to do them up, and the same on the other side, just up and then over. Now, pulling them up before you pull them over means that you get a nice snug fit around the back of those thighs.

                    Then we’re just going to pop that elastic into the leg crease. Nice and snug around the back of the thighs, so no escaping poos or anything. Pop that elastic out there, and we tuck that fold up so that it’s nice and snug. That’s it.

                    I’ll pick Matese up. Come here gorgeous. As you can see, we’ve got a nice snug fit around the back there. I can pop my finger in there, and it’s nice and snug against my finger, but it’s not too tight on her back. Then if we bring her over like this, we’ve got a nice trim front on the nappy, and it’s nice, and the elastics are set into the undie line, so it’s going to be a nice snug fit on her. That is a Pikapu one size fits most all-in-one on baby Matese who is eight weeks old and three and a half kilos. Thanks for visiting us at Nest, and we look forward to seeing you again soon.

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How to use the Pikapu Newborn All-In-One on a small baby

The PIKAPU newborn is an all-in-one. Thus, an all-in-one is just that. It’s one piece, it’s nothing to get lost or confused, and it does have little bit of adjustability through here.

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Taking your bub out of the Manduca

In this video I take the Manduca carrier off with your newborn in it. The Manduca is a soft-structured carrier that is designed to be work from around about three kilos through to about 20 kilos.

Transcrip: Taking your bub out of the Manduca

           Hi. It’s Vashti from Nest Nappies here, and today I wanted to show you how to take the Manduca carrier off with your newborn in it. The Manduca is a soft-structured carrier that is designed to be work from around about three kilos through to about 20 kilos.

            Today, I have bubby Matisse with me. Matisse is at 3.5 kilos, and I’m using the newborn insert with her in it. Now to take her out all you want to do is to start with is to take off the shoulder strap there. Just undo that and then we’re just going to slide our arm out of the carrier and make sure that we hold on to Matisse. Do you remember we’ve got her in the newborn insert? So we’re just going to undo those clips as well. We’re just going to let the Manduca fall around our waist. We’re then going to lift Matisse. Oh, darling. Hey. We might give Matisse over to her dad so that he can give her a lovely snuggle. There we go.

             That’s it. That’s pretty much how your bubby out of the Manduca. Once you’ve done with your baby and you’ve popped them down for their sleep, or you’ve done what you need to do, you can then take the Manduca off from around your waist by merely twisting it around and then just pushing on the two buckles and the extra little safety clasp and undoing it. That’s it.

             Now one of the things that I love about the Manduca is that it is so easy to pop it away. With the straps, all I do is fold them in half where they naturally fold and then fold it in on itself like. Tuck in all of that and you can actually roll the Manduca up to the waistband and then bring the straps around, click them together and tighten. That’s your Manduca all popped away ready to go in the back of the car. If you need to you can tuck that extra strap around just so that it’s nice and contained. As you can see it does travel quite well, quite comfortable and it’s nice in a line.

            That’s how to take your bubby out of the Manduca carrier. Thanks for visiting us at Nest and we look forward to seeing you again soon. Bye.

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Podcast Episode 008: Cost expectations

This time the girls talk about expectations of the cost of modern cloth nappies over disposable nappies. The girls even take into consideration the cost of washing, cost of detergent and also the water use over the cost of disposable nappies. They answer the question are modern cloth nappies cheaper than disposable nappies.

You can find all the numbers at Vashti’s website.

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Putting on the Manduca while using the infant insert.

Today I’m going to show you the Manduca Carrier. The Manduca Carrier is a soft-structured carrier that is suitable from about three kilos to 20-odd kilos. So, from the average bobby at birth through to the average toddler. It can be worn on your front, it has a built-in baby insert, so there’s no need to get any extra cushions or pillows to go into it, and it can also be worn on your back from when your bobby is sitting unassisted.


Transcript: Putting on the Manduca while using the infant insert.

                 Hi, it’s Vashti from Nest Nappies here, and today I’m going to show you the Manduca Carrier. The Manduca Carrier is a soft-structured carrier that is suitable from about three kilos to 20-odd kilos. So, from the average bobby at birth through to the average toddler. It can be worn on your front, it has a built-in baby insert, so there’s no need to get any extra cushions or pillows to go into it, and it can also be worn on your back from when your bobby is sitting unassisted.

                    The carrier itself is made from a beautiful cotton, canvas material. It has a nice, structured waistband, and there are webbed straps. The shoulder straps are beautifully cushioned so that it’s not gonna put any undue stress on your back, and it has been endorsed by the Australian Physiotherapy Association, so it’s not gonna put any undue stress on your back. Manduca Carrier has also been endorsed by the Australian Breastfeeding Association because you can breastfeed in it quite easily.

                    Today, I have baby Matisse with me, and after I show you how to pop your carrier on, I’m gonna get her dad to pass her over to me. Now baby Matisse is eight weeks old, and she’s about three and a half kilos, so she’s gonna fit in this beautifully.

                    Now to pop the carrier on, you’re just gonna get the waist belt, and you’re just going to pop the tag against your body. I always like to pop it around my back so I can see the buckle. You’re gonna pop the buckle through this little elastic band here, and then pop it into the actual buckle itself there. And the reason that we pop it through the elastic band is just as an extra safety precaution. The buckle itself is actually a three-point buckle as well, so you need to press on both of those and then that little button there for it to release. If for some reason the buckle does release, it’s going to … If for some reason the buckle does release, it’s going to get caught on that elastic, and bubby’s not gonna fall out. So that’s why we do that.

                    So just pop it in like that, and then we’re gonna turn the carrier back around to the front. Now as you can see, it’s got this extra flap here. That’s actually the baby insert, and baby Matisse, or your baby, is gonna sit in there, and then this will actually come up and clip onto the little studs that are on the carrier itself.

                    We always recommend when you’re first popping your baby in the carrier that you do do it assisted with somebody else around, and you do it over a bed or a couch, something soft, so if something does go wrong, bubby’s not gonna fall too far. We also recommend that you do sit down to pop bobby in the carrier, and lay the carrier on your lap so that you’ve got a nice, flat surface. So we’re gonna grab bobby Matisse … Hey gorgeous, hi. Hello. Hello Matisse. Sorry, and I’ve got a stool here, so I’m gonna sit on this stool, and I’m just going to lay the carrier on my lap there. And then I’m going to … Hi. I know. Just gonna lie … Hi. Oh, darling.

                    So all I’m doing is just popping that panel up in between Matisse’s legs, and then doing up the little studs. Hi. We’re then going to … Bring the panel up, and making sure Matisse’s legs are on either side. Now as you can see, the panels are a little bit too short for Matisse, so there is this zip here that we can unzip … Hi. And that’s just gonna bring the height of the panel up to provide some support for Matisse’s neck. Hi.

                    We’re then going to pop our arms through the straps here, and then we’re just going to tighten those straps just like that. You’ll see that the Manduca also has a strap here, that just gets done up at the back of your neck, and that will just stop your shoulder straps from falling down. There are also perfect fit adjusters at the front of the carrier so that we can just pull that down like that. And there we have it.

                    Now if you need to, you can actually slide your hands into the carrier just to adjust your bobby’s position, and you’ll see that ’cause Matisse is still so small, her feet are actually still sitting just inside there so that they’re actually contained within the outer panel of the carrier itself.

                    Now, if you need to, the Manduca also has a hood that is contained within the carrier that’s providing the neck support for really tiny bobbies, but it can be pulled out and popped up, and then clipped up to these little clips at the top here to provide some extra privacy or some sun protection if need be. Hey!

                    So that’s the Manduca on a little newborn bobby and how to pop it on. Thanks for visiting us at Nest, and we look forward to seeing you again soon. Bye!

Podcast Episode 005: Questions and Answers

Episode 005
More questions, this week Vashti and Vicki answer some more questions put forward by long-term cloth nappy users. The questions are things they were concerned about before they became full-time cloth nappy users.

Questions include.

 How you wash them?
Do you need to wash every day?
I don’t wanna spend a lot of time in the laundry.
What is the different between POL and minky?
Will the thicker profile fit under clothes and be comfortable to wear?
What are the pros and cons of all in one and all in twos?
Will I need to change the cover every time I change a bam-bam nappy? Do I need to add something, like a booster, for nighttime?
Is cloth less breathable than disposables?
Can I use the dryer?
Her next question is can she use nappy sand or similar products?
How do you get rid of mould?
How do you store nappies between baby?

Continue reading…

How to put on a Caboo + Organic by Close

Vashti shows us with the help of baby Matisse how to put on a Caboo + Organic by Close. Made out of 98% Organic Cotton, 2% Polyester this comfortable baby carrier is perfect for new mums and dads wanting to be able to carry the baby and have your hands free to do other things.

Transcript: Caboo + Organic.

Hi. It’s Vashti from Nest Nappies, and I’m here today to show you how to use the Caboo by Close. The Caboo is a light, stretchy carrier that’s suitable for newborns up until around about 14 kilos, although we do find that once they hit about six months, they tend to get a little bit in your face, and they want to get out and look at some other things. So, the Caboo, the one I have with me today is the Caboo Plus Organic. It is two layers, two passes, and it has some rings on the side. The back of the carrier has a little bit of structure. It comes in two pieces because on top of the carrier itself, and you also have an extra pass that will go around the outside.

             Now, I have baby [Matisse 00:00:59] with me, and I’m going to show you how to pop this on first, and then I’m going to get baby Matisse’s dad to pass her over to me. Now, with the Caboo, what you want to do is that part there is going to sit around about where your bra does up or about the middle of your back. Moreover, all you’re going to do is pop it on exactly like you would a T-shirt, so arms through and then over your head, just like that. I then like to fan out the passes, so that they’re nice and flat against the body, and the rings do up, just on your hips there. You have the passes no more than about 10 centimetres out from your body, so that’s a little bit far out. I’m just going to pull on these little tiles here to tighten that up a little bit. As you can see, that then brings it in that little bit closer to my body.

            So, once we’re ready, I’m going to grab Matisse.

             Hi, Bubba. Hi. Hi.

            So, this is baby Matisse, and baby Matisse is nearly eight weeks old. She is used to being carried, so fingers crossed. She’s a little bit sleepy, so we’ll try and keep her nice and quiet.


            There we go. Now, what we’re going to do is the pass that’s closest to my body, which is this pass here, we’re going to pop Matisse up on the other shoulder. We’re just going to pull that pass out and fan it over her bottom so that the cast goes from knee to knee. She’s just going to slide down in there.

            And then we’re going to get this other pass and pass it up over the other leg. Moreover, once again, make an X across Bubbie’s back and make sure that she’s fully supported from knee to knee with the two passes.

            We can then pull on these little tiles here, which I think I’ve twisted one. Just pull them to make it a little bit tighter for her and give her a nice snug fit in there. As you can see, that is around about where my bra does up, so right in the centre of my back. Matisse is fully contained within the carrier, arms free.

            The third pass that I mentioned is this one here, and this is just going … this has got some elastic across the top of the carrier above the pass and along the bottom. We’re just going to put that bottom piece just underneath Matisse’s bottom and then pop it up.

            Whoops, we can get that.

            And then tie it up behind my back, just like that. There we go.

            Do you want to come out? There we go. Moreover, I’ve worked on Matisse now.

            So, that is the Caboo Organic, and that’s how you pop it on. So, nice and hands-free so that you can get around and do everything that you need to do during the day.

            Thanks for visiting us at Nest, and we look forward to seeing you again soon.

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How to put a Bubblebubs Pebbles cloth nappy on a newborn

Vashti shows you how to fit the Bubblebubs Pebbles on a little baby. The Bubblebubs Pebbles is an all-in-one newborn nappy that will fit from around about 2 kilos through to about 5 1/2 kilos.

Continue reading…

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Podcast: Episode 003 Questions and Answers

nappy leaks podcast

This week on Nappy Leaks, Vashti and Vicki answer some questions put forward by long term cloth nappy users. The questions they ask are things they were concerned about before they became full time cloth nappy users.

Continue reading…

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Podcast: Episode 002 What reusable nappies are made of.

nappy leaks podcast

In this weeks podcast, Vashti and Vicki dive deep into the fabrics that are used to make modern cloth nappies. Explaining the long term environmental impact of all the fabrics and giving you the knowledge to know which fabric to have in your cloth nappies.

In this week’s show.
How many fabrics are used in Australian Modern Cloth Nappies?
Which ones are best to look for.
If you’re having trouble with your nappies, reach out. It’s not you, it’s the nappy, and you just need a little bit of help.

Continue reading…

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How to put on a Bubblebubs Bambam and Thirsties cover on a one-month-old.

Vashti show us the best way to put on a Thirsties Cover with rise snaps over a Bubblebubs Bambam cloth nappy.

Transcript: Thirsties cover on a Bambam cloth nappy.

Hi, it’s Vashti from Nest Nappies, and today I’m here with baby Matisse who is one month old and three point three five kilos. Today I wanted to pop in and do a quick demo on fitting a Bubblebubs Bambam on a small bubbly and just show you how absolutely gorgeous and trim that they are. So we have our Bambam here. 

These gorgeous nappies, we actually co-branded because we love them so much. They’re fitted a nappy, and a fitted nappy is shaped, so it goes on nice and easy. It’s got elastic through the legs and through the back to make sure we keep in all those lovely poonamis. 

It breaks down into two pieces to make it quick dry, and all you do with the insert is just fold it in three and lay it inside the nappy. So we’re going to… Now, a fitted nappy does need a cover to go on over the top, and today we’re going to show you how to fit the Thirsties Duo size one cover over the Bambams and get a really gorgeous fit. 

The Thirsties will fit from around about three kilos through to about eight kilos, so they’re perfect for those early newborn days. So, all we need to do is just pop the Bambam under Matisse here, and I always like to line up the back of the nappy around about where the belly button does up. And we’re just going to bring the insert up in between the legs, and I like to grab the top of the elastic on the Bambams and bring that up as high as we can in between the legs and then just fold the front of the nappy down nice and snug like that. 

We’re then just going to grab the wings and bring them up and over. And then grab our snappy and pop it on from hip to hip and down into the groyne. As you can see, we folded that over quite a long way so knowing that, we’re going to be able to get a lot of use because you don’t need to, as bubby gets bigger, you just don’t fold it down as low. The Bambam is an excellent, snug fit around those legs, and we’ve got it up into the undie line just in there, so it’s nice and tight, and it’s going to hold everything in. If I lift Matisse up here. Hi. As you can see, we’ve got beautiful, snug fits around the back there, so that’s going to stop all those poos shooting up the back there and it means that you don’t need to change any clothes or bedding. It’s just fantastic. 

Now, if we pop Matisse back down. Hi, gorgeous. Now, with the Thirsties cover, these come in a Velcro or a snap closure, and they have a small amount of adjustability through the front, so that’s called rise snap, and because Matisse is so little, but she’s not really that little, but she is quite small, we’re actually going to snap these ones down all the way to the front. All the way to the bottom, sorry. 

Just so that we end up with a lower rise. Helps if I prepare myself earlier. Now we’re just going to pop that cover under Matisse, and we’re going to make sure that the elastic of the cover is higher than the elastic of the Bambam. And then anything with the rise snap, I’ll show you, I actually like to pop my thumbs into that fold so that we can get an excellent good fit in there, and we’re going to bring that elastic up and around the thighs and then just fold it down across the front. 

As you can see, that fold is actually folded uppermost, and I haven’t just brought it up like that or have it straight. We want that fold to come all the way up, and then we just fold it down like this. Then with the wings, we’re just going to pull it up and over and on the other side, and as you can see, we’ll just double check to make sure that there are no bits of nappy sticking out anywhere, and we’re all tucked in, and beautiful, and snug. And we bring Matisse up again. Hello gorgeous. 

As you can see, it’s covering the nappy there, and we can fit our finger in, and we’re not going to have any leaks or anything like that. It’s not going to be to tight in any way. So, that is Matisse in a Bambam with a Thirsties Duo wrap, size one cover over the top. So thanks for visiting Nest, and we hope to see you again very soon. Bye. Hi, how is that? That was pretty good, wasn’t it?


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Fitting prefold cloth nappies on a newborn

Want to use traditional cloth nappies without the origami?  Vashti shows us how to use the Bubblebubs stretchy bamboo jersey pre-fold on a one-month-old 3kg newborn baby.

Continue reading…

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Traditional Nappies on a newborn

traditional nappies lifestyle

It’s no secret we love a good Basic here at Nest! It’s not a prerequisite to love Traditional nappies if you work here but it sure does help! More than 75% of our customers are first time parents wanting to cloth nappy their babies from birth (or soon after).   Most of them walk away with at least one kind of Traditional nappy in their shopping bag!

Helping families to successfully cloth nappy from birth is about introducing them to products that are flexible, cost effective, dry quickly and are able to be used for a significant period of time (ie more than a few months). The added challenge is that most of our customers come to us before their baby has arrived.   This means we need to provide them with a product that is extremely flexible in regard to sizing, shape and fit to give them the best chance of success when their baby arrives. Cue the Basics!

What’s so good about Prefolds?

Along with fitted nappies, prefolds are one of our biggest sellers and with good reason.

  • Prefolds open out flat so they dry quickly (though this can vary according to fabrics).
  • With different folds they can be modified to fit any baby, regardless of shape and size.
  • They are economical and can cost as little as $4ea for cotton prefolds.
  • The separate nappy and cover means you get two levels of protection from leaks.  Caregivers can easily re-use the waterproof layer if it isn’t soiled.
  • Prefolds have a life span well beyond the newborn stage.  They can be used as pocket nappy inserts, lay in inserts, or night boosters.  Not to mention vomit cloths, breastpads, floor wiping cloths, carseat protectors!
  • They are an extremely cost effective birth to toilet training option.
  • Three simple folds means a quick turn around from washing line to storage.  This means no more sorting through inserts and snapping them into shells.  Just fold at the line and put them away!
  • Available in a variety of fabrics including bamboo terry, bamboo stretch, cotton, hemp and/or microfiber. Our most popular version is a stretchy bamboo – which pulls nice and tight around little legs.  This helps create a nice trim fit around those gorgeous little legs.  

What are Prefolds?

Prefolds are  traditional nappies that consist of two main layers of fabric.  They generally have three or four extra layers of absorbency sewn into a centre panel. This creates a flat nappy with three distinct panels; one thin, one thick, one thin. Despite the name ‘prefold’ the nappy still requires three quick folds to get it ready for use.

Fitting a Prefold on your baby.

When using a pre-fold on a newborn, take the nappy, which has already been folded into a pad and lay it on the change table. Spread out a small section of each of the side panels at the top to create two ‘wings’. Pull the front of the nappy up between your babies legs and then wrap the side panels from the back around your babies tummy.  Fasten at the front with a Nappy Fastener (you can just pull a good fitting cover over the nappy and skip the fastener).

Tips and Tricks with your Prefolds.

If the prefold is too long for your baby you can shorten it by doubling over the front panel when you pull it up between your babies legs. This is particularly good for boys as it gives lots of absorbency up high where they need it most. Alternatively a less bulky way to shorten the prefold is to fold it angel wing style and then fold down the fanned out fabric at the back. This is also a great tip if you have an explosive poo-er as it creates a bit of a ‘scoop’ to catch anything that might try to escape out the back!

Another tip for using prefolds on a newborn is to ‘scoop’ the fabric between your babies legs so it’s not so wide. Lay your baby on the back piece and then as you pull the absorbency up through their legs pinch the nappy so the piece sitting at their crotch is nice and thin, it will make a ‘scoop’ which helps to catch everything and makes it easier to get a tight fit around the legs. When fastening the back wings up and around your babies tummy, be sure to pull the fabric nice and tight around the hips and legs. As you pull the fabric it will create a gusset which should wrap snuggly around the legs and help minimize leaks.

Waterproofing your Prefold.

A good fitting PUL cover will ensure your prefolds are nice and trim and won’t leak. It pays to invest in one PUL cover for every 3 to 4 prefolds in your stash (ie 2 covers for 6 nappies, 4 for 12 etc) and have at least two newborn size covers to cover you for the early days, even if you’re planning to use predominantly one-size-fits-most covers. We also recommend a Snappi for fastening your nappy in the early days. Microfleece liners laid inside can help make cleaning a breeze, whilst keeping your baby nice and dry.

If you are thinking about trying prefolds or want some help with fitting your prefolds, drop in and visit us, gives us a call, leave a message here or send us an email and let us know!

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Cloth Nappy Overview

cloth nappy

Learning that you are pregnant for the first (or second or third or even forth) time can be a scary but exciting and exhilarating time.  When you finally let it sink in that there is a small human growing inside of you and will soon be in your arms, it’s time to start thinking about what you need.  After thinking about the cot, the pram, the car seat and the carrier.  The clothes, the bath, the bassinet and the toys, most parents will start to think about the nappies.  If you have thought about using cloth nappies (good chance considering you are here!), the next question is which sort?  Do you go old school and stick with traditional nappies or do you use a modern cloth nappy?  Today I thought I would explain all the different types.  As an added bonus, if you don’t want to read about them, Vicki and I have recently begun recording a Podcast and episode 1 is just this.  You can listen to us discuss the benefits of each style here.

Continue reading…

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Breaking down the costs of nappies – cloth vs disposables

cloth vs disposable

I often get asked about cost comparison between cloth nappies and disposables.  It’s a really hard subject to tackle because there is so much difference in the price of each disposable nappy and even the different types of cloth nappies.  I’m going to give it a go though and try and break it down a little at the same time.  So here we go, what is the cost of cloth vs disposables?


How Many?

The first thing that we need to look at it how many nappies babies goes through and at what age.  At Nest, we have found that the average baby will need around 6,570 nappy changes from birth to toilet training.  This can be broken down in the following way;

Newborn (Birth – 3 months) approx 12 changes per day for a total of 1,080 nappy changes,

Infant (3 – 6 months) approx 9 changes per day for a total of 810 nappy changes,

Crawler (6 -12 Months) approx 6 changes per day for a total of 1,080 nappy changes,

Walker (12-18 months) approx 6 changes per day for a total of 1,080 nappy changes, and

Toddler (18 months -2.5yrs the average age of toilet training) 4 per day for a total of 1,460 nappy changes.

If you add in specialised night nappies from 2 years through until 5years of age (the average age of night training) you are looking at another 1,068 nappy changes.

If you have made the decision to use disposables, that’s 6,570 nappies that are going straight into landfill per child.  If you have chosen to use cloth, you will need as little as 24 nappies to do you from birth to toilet training and as a bonus you can use them on future children, pass them on to friends and family, donate them to charity, repurpose them and more.  This means your cloth nappies will take longer to reach landfill, if at all.  Now, while I say that it can be done with as little as 24 nappies, here at Nest, we recommend the following to make your cloth nappy journey that little bit easier;

Newborn (birth – 4/6 months) – 30 – 36 nappies,

One size fits most (6 months – toilet training) 18 – 24 nappies.

If you want a specialised night nappy, as well, Nest recommend three at any one time.  I you choose to go down the one size fits most, these could work from around the 4-6 moth mark all the way through top toilet training.  If you choose a sized option, three of each size will see you through.

Cloth vs Disposables – What does it cost?

Continue reading…

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Caboo Giveaway and new Friday Freebie

close parent friday freebie

Caboo Winner

Did you watch our Facebook Live drawing of our lucky Caboo Winner from last week?  Toni C. was our lucky Friday Freebie winner for International Baby Wearing Week and we can’t wait to hear what she thinks of her gorgeous new Caboo + Cotton in the Limited Edition Orla print.  I loved my Caboo for my little man and we hope you love yours too Toni!  I would also like to thank Kylie and Brent (the brand new Close Parent Distributors) for making the giveaway possible!

close parent caboo orla

Friday Freebie

This week we have another giveaway from Close Parent – an awesome Rockets set!  This set contains a small legionnaire swim hat, a dribble bib, a balloon ball and a tote to carry it all in!  These balloon balls are not available to purchase and are super popular!

close parent friday freebie

Your little one will love playing with the balloon ball, will stay super stylish with the dribble bib and cap and the tote makes a perfect swimming or library bag.  I have to say, out of all the Close Parent prints at the moment, the Rockets is a clear favourite in our house!  There are even little aliens in the rocket ships!

How do you win, I hear you ask?  Well, all you have to do is review any Close Parent product on our website or head over to the Cloth Nappy Reviews website and review a Close Parent product there, then head back here and let us know which product you reviewed?  Haven’t used Close Parent before?  That’s ok, you can still be in with a chance just by promising to leave a review if you win!

The Giveaway Fine Print

– this comp is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by Facebook, Instagram, the Cloth Nappy Reviews website, or any other platform except for Nest Nappies
– the prize is not redeemable for cash

– postage is the responsibility of the winner

– winner will be drawn by Nest Nappies on Friday 20th of October 2017
– winner will be drawn at random
– winner must be a follower of Nest Nappies and Close Parent on Instagram or like Nest Nappies and Close Parent on Facebook

– winner must have left a review for any Close Parent product on the Nest Nappies website or the Cloth Nappy Reviews website and / or be prepared to leave a review for the prize products
– Nest Nappies has the final say
– sharing isn’t required but is appreciated
– this is not a competition of skill, although we love hearing about your experiences with your little one


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International Baby Wearing Week 2017

Did you know that it is International Baby Wearing Week (IBW)?  I have spent all week trying to post something about this but have been so flat out that I haven’t had a chance.  So, here it is, 9pm on a Friday night and I’m finally getting to it. 

The theme for International Baby Wearing Week’s ninth annual celebration is Threaded Together. The inspiration for the theme comes from the many different threads that, when combined through the weaving process, form all of the carriers we use. All of these individual threads, once woven, create a material in the same way individuals and groups worldwide come together to create a global baby wearing community.

When I look back at my own baby wearing journey, I am filled with a multitude of emotions.  There have been times when baby wearing has been the only thing that has gotten me through the day.  Occasions when baby wearing has allowed me to get things done.  Times when baby wearing has calmed and soothed my tired / cranky / teething / overwhelmed baby and times when it has soothed me.  I have made a multitude of friends through carrying my children and I know that these friendships will last through the ages.  I think the best was when another school mum introduced herself to me by say “Your middle marker is on point love.” lol That one certainly cheered me when I was still feeling lost and alone after moving the kids to a new school and missing my mums circle at our old school.  I have felt so much love while carrying my babies and will carry that with me always.

My own journey started nearly 12 years ago and at the time I knew very little about being a parent.  In fact, this time 12 years ago, my first child was already overdue and I was anxiously awaiting his arrival.  I had my terry flats for his bum, I had clothes, I had a bassinet, I had a pram.  What I didn’t have was a carrier and I had no idea on what to look for either. In those days before Master B arrived, I went looking and ended up with a carrier from my local big box store that  looked like it ticked all the boxes.  The box said it would work from newborn and would allow me to wear my bub facing out. It looked perfect.  Mr Nest and I discussed it.  It fit the budget.  He agreed he would wear it and so it came home. 

When my little man finally decided to make his entrance to the world I was busting to get home and try out my new carrier.  Unfortunately, it put pressure on my ceasar wound and I found it uncomfortable.  Never mind, I thought!  Once the wound heals I can start wearing my bub.  But even after the wound healed, I still found the carrier uncomfortable and awkward to wear.  Weeks turned to months and I was consistently opting for the pram instead.  Finally, I decided to try another carrier.  This one stated that it had soft, wide straps designed to mould to the wearer and provide comfort whilst wearing.  As a bonus, I could also carry my bub on my back now that he was getting bigger!  So, this carrier came home and Mr Nest and I excitedly ripped it out of its box and took it for a spin.  Unfortunately I, once again, found it uncomfortable and was unable to wear my little man for anything more than half an hour before I was in pain.  Soon I was turning back to the pram and resigning myself that baby wearing just wasn’t for me.

When number 2 arrived, I had learned a little more and had friend who baby wore as well.  I decided to try a ring sling and a stretchy wrap. I loved them!  I was able to wear my little lady within days of leaving the hospital and having her close meant that I could still do all the things with my toddler that I wanted to.  As she out grew her stretchy, I reached for the ring sling more and even investigated hip carriers with masses of success.  Yippee, it wasn’t me!  It was merely the carrier I had been using. I was over the moon and loved the bond that carrying her close created.

Fast forward seven years to Master K making his appearance and I had learnt so much more.  I knew that I wanted to hold my bub close and with two older kids who needed school runs and play dates, I had to find something that worked.  I no longer had the carriers I had used with the big kids so it was  time for a new one.  I had researched and investigated.  I looked at carriers on and off the market.   I eventually decided that the Close Parent Caboo was the one for me.  It’s gorgeous, stretchy, organic cotton and ease of use meant that I would be able to do quick on and offs.  it held my little one in the optimal position for both of our comfort and it came in our family’s favourite colour – purple.  So, into Nest I trotted and ordered one in for myself.  When Master K arrived, my Caboo was in my hospital bag.  It was amazing!  When I started back at the shop, Master K was with me and tucked up safe and sound in the Caboo. He would stay snuggled close to my chest all day and it was easy for me to feed him while still chatting with mums and dads to be.  When I needed to take him out, it was simply a matter of loosening off the rings and sliding him up.  I remember him being such a chilled bubba (such a rambunctious toddler now!) and he would often go through hours just snoozing on my chest while I chatted nappies.  

baby wearing at green heart fair

Vashti is wearing her Caboo while chatting nappies for the Australian Nappy Association at the Green Heart Fair

When he finally out grew our Caboo, I will admit that I shed a tear or two but I was also excited about what other options were available to me.  I have been lucky enough to test some amazing wraps and carriers over the last three years and have had several wraps come visit me (an awesome way to make friends near and far <3).  These days we no longer baby wear.  Master K has decided that he is too much of a big boy and loves to walk instead.  We have once again moved our carriers on and I am happy to say that our beloved Caboo went on to snuggle another gorgeous little man when we gifted it to our nanny when she fell pregnant.

So, what does all this have to do with Nest now?  Well, I have a gorgeous Caboo + Cotton in the limited edition Orla design to give away in celebration of IBW.  All you have to do is like our Facebook or Instagram pages, leave a review for a product that you have used on our website and promise to leave a review for the Caboo once you have used it and comment below with your Face Book or Instagram name and which product you reviewed here on our website. 

baby wearing in a caboo

Close Parent Caboo + Cotton in Limited Edition Orla

If you just can’t wait to see if you are a winner, we are doing 15% off all carriers* until Sunday 8th of October.  Head over and check them out now!

If you wanted to meet other baby wearers and try some different carriers, why not check out your local Baby Wearing Group.  If you are in Brisbane this weekend, come along and join the Mega Meet on Sunday at Roma Street Parklands.  There will be tons of lucky door prizes and even a couple from us.

The Giveaway Fine Print

– this comp is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by Facebook, Instagram or any other platform except for Nest Nappies
– the prize is not redeemable for cash

– whilst this carrier is in new, unused condition, it will come with no packaging
– postage is the responsibility of the winner

– winner will be drawn by Nest Nappies on Friday 13th of October 2017
– winner will be drawn at random
– winner must be a follower of Nest Nappies on Instagram or like Nest Nappies on Facebook

– winner must have left a review for any product on the Nest Nappies website and / or be prepared to leave a review for the Caboo +
– Nest Nappies has the final say
– sharing isn’t required but is appreciated
– this is not a competition of skill, although we love hearing about your experiences with your little one


* discount only available on in stock carriers and not valid with any other offer.






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Friday Freebie!

If you have been avoiding social media or hiding under a rock this week you may have missed the fact that Seedling Baby released their long awaited new prints!  Icon, Nurture and Bastion are all absolutely stunning and available in their super amazing Pocket Nappy, trim one size fits most Comodo Wrap, super stylish Paddle Pants and incredibly versatile Beach Bag.

To celebrate the release and the gorgeous weather we are getting we have a set of Paddle Pants and a Beach Bag to give away to two lucky people!

All you have to do is head over to the Cloth Nappy Reviews page and review any Seedling Baby product then head back here and let us know which one you left a review for.  If you are yet to try some Seedling Baby goodness, you can still enter!  Just promise that you will leave a review once you have used your goodies 🙂

seedling baby friday freebie

These beauties will see you ready to take on summer and your little one will love splashing about while you enjoy the convenience of popping the days swim stuff straight into the bag!

Winner will be drawn Monday 25th September 2017.


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