This episode is sponsored by Seedling Baby! They are giving away a 7 pack of their one size fits most pocket nappies to try! All you have to do is leave a review on the Nappy Leaks Facebook or in your podcast app, screen shot your review and send it to nappyleaks@bubblebubs.com.au. Winner will be drawn at random on December 13, 2020. Competition is open worldwide to people over 18. One entry per review. International winners must cover postage.

We’ve got something a bit special this week! It’s a little bit travel show and a little bit cloth nappy show. Vicki and Vashti are back from their trip to Germany! They went to Kind + Jugend, the biggest trade show for baby products in the world. Vicki went to find new retailers and Vashti went to find new products. They discuss innovative new products that are caring for our babies and the future of their planet as well as the culture and uptake of cloth nappies in Australia vs around the world.

Transcript: Vashti and Vicki go to Germany

Andrew: Welcome Vashti.

Vashti: Hi, Andrew. How are you?

Andrew: Good, how are you?

Vashti: Good thanks.

Andrew: Welcome Vicki.

Vicki: Hi, Andrew.

Andrew: [laughs] Vicki’s not feeling 100%, but we’ll see how we go.

Vashti: Didn’t bring chocolate this time.

Vicki: No, that’s going to make me feel worse.

Andrew: No, it’s not actually, it’s actually eating which has made her feel bad.

Vicki: I ate too much.

Andrew: Or was it what you ate.

Vicki: Yeah, McDonalds, I never, ever eat McDonalds, and now every time I eat McDonalds, this is why I don’t eat McDonalds.

Andrew: We’ll take that bit out so people don’t know you hate McDonalds.

Vicki: I hate McDonalds.

Vashti: And we’ll throw that in later on.

Vicki: Even a ham and cheese toastie, I thought oh no, this is safe. No.

Andrew: But it’s made in a different section. 

Vicki: It’s still made with plastic cheese and plastic ham. The bread actually looks normal, but that’s about it.

Vashti: I don’t think it’s normal bread.

Andrew: It’s amazing how they can make bread look normal.

Vicki: I did not, the kids love McDonalds when I actually let them have it, but I just, just Joe eats McDonalds a lot.

Vashti: It turns my stomach.

Vicki: It’s just the smell when you walk into a McDonalds, the smell just really turns me off, yuck.

Vashti: Well you offered to me and I’m like, no thanks. 

Andrew: So we have a sponsor.

Vashti: We do, today…

Andrew: Our sponsor is Seedling Baby.

Vashti: Seedling Baby. So Seedling Baby has donated one of their seven packs of their pocket nappies. The seven pack has their three gorgeous icon prints and four of their beautiful plains. They’re pocket nappies, one size fits most. And the idea behind the seven pack is that you try one nappy a day for a week and see how you like it. I always say to people, just start with that first nappy of the morning, and use the cloth nappy for that one. And if there’s a poo in it, get rid of the solids and wash the nappy, for wees, and once you’ve gotten the poo out, just wash the nappy with your normal clothes and see how you go. It’s a great way to start with cloth.

Andrew: Nice.

Vashti: I love my Seedling Baby pockets, they’re beautiful. 

Andrew: You know probably a lot of our listeners are already cloth users.

Vashti: I know, but we do have a lot who are just starting out as well and learning all the basics.

Andrew: That’s true, that’s true.

Vashti: So this is a great one for all those beginners.

Andrew: Well the way our listeners are growing, we’re definitely picking that up. Thank you Seedling Baby. And just remember, the hosts don’t get any kick back from giving these prizes away, I’m the only one that benefits.

Vashti: Just with love.

Vicki: Eggplant taco, water emoji.

Andrew: I just don’t know what to do with all these nappies now that I don’t have any babies. 

Vicki: Eggplant taco, water emoji. 

Vashti: OK.

Andrew: And to enter and win, all you do is just go to the Apple Podcasts, because it’s not called Apple Podcasts anymore, it’s not called iTunes anymore.

Vashti: Oh, isn’t it? 

Andrew: No, because they’re all separate apps now. But you’d know that if you updated your system, so you haven’t updated your system yet, have you?

Vashti: No, I haven’t. Brent was actually talking to me about the update last night and he was like, have you done it yet, because they’ve moved something, I need to find it. I’m like no, I haven’t done it yet.

Andrew: He was probably looking for podcasts. It’s a separate app now. So all you have to do is just give us a rating on Apple Podcasts or your podcaster of choice. Or like or poke or swipe right, on the Nappy Leaks Facebook page. Is that what you do, swipe right?

Vicki: Mm.

Vashti: Or leave us a review.

Andrew: Leave us a review.

Vicki: You’re acting like I know what is actually going on here. 

Vashti: Jenna knows. 

Andrew: Jenna knows, what’s going on, Jenna?

Jenna: Were you about to say the important next bit, which is screenshot that, and email it to nappyleaks@bubblebubs.com.au.  

Andrew: See, it’s written down.

Jenna: I don’t trust you. I have no faith. Continue.

Vashti: We have faith in you though, Jenna.

Andrew: Thanks, Jenna. Yes, everybody get that email address? nappyleaks@bubblebubs.com.au. It’s not at the Nappy Leaks website. And sorry we can’t announce the winners on the show, because well we record them sporadically and we give the awards away on time, but we don’t record the episodes on time, so we can’t announce them on the show.

Vashti: That’s OK, if you like the Nappy Leaks Facebook page, you’ll find out who the winner is.

Andrew: Yes, I did not know that, excellent.

Vicki: I’m sure there was a recent winner because I’ve just sent something out.

Andrew: Yeah, you did, yeah. 

Vashti: I think you’ll find it on the Nappy Leaks Facebook page. I don’t know. Maybe. We might do something like that.

Andrew: Do you want me to bring the mic over there Jenna, so you can just comment from your seat?

Vicki: No, she’ll just keep coughing into it.

Andrew: Thank you everybody who’s entered by the way, and wow, we get some fantastic reviews, and I’ve got a couple here that Vashti is going to read out. 

Vashti: So Courts S said “So much great info. This podcast is a must for anyone looking to use cloth nappies, or for anyone who is already using them. Cloth nappies can be very daunting at the start, so having a podcast I could listen to, helped wrap my head around them was great. My baby’s needs, when it came to nappies, are always changing as well, so I never stop needing questions answered or advice. I find there are so many stages to cloth nappies. Newborns, sickness, starting solids, growing into one size fits most. When your toddler learns to take off the nappy themselves, storage, and this podcast helps me through all of them. Keep up the great work, team.” Thanks Court. 

Vicki: Wow, that was actually really in depth. My reviews are like Yeah, mate, this is cool. Good fridge. Or yeah, nice quiet washing machine. So thank you.

Vashti: That was lovely. We’ve got another five star here from Fifi Tink, it’s titled “So much to learn. I was already using cloth, but started getting leaks and was considering other options, so needed to do some research. So very informative and entertaining. It feels like Vicki and Vashti are like my mums’ group and always encouraging me. Thank you ladies. I have already recommended it to a few mums that have been interested in cloth.” Aw, thanks Fifi.

Vicki: That’s nice. 

Vashti: I like being part of a mums’ group. 

Vicki: A nice mums’ group. 

Vashti: And yes. 

Vicki: I don’t know, I left my mums’ group pretty early on. But then way back then I was considered like a crunchy mum because the whole breastfeeding and cloth nappies and 15 years ago, was very much…

Vashti: I had a really great mums’ group with Braith. Mind you, we were living in a small country town. But the core group of us were just fantastic, and we’re still friends now. Like Braith is 14 tomorrow. Well, when this airs, it will be 14 a month ago. But you know, we’re still in contact, and I can say this on air because it will air after and there’s no chance of Braith hearing it, but he is actually getting tickets to The Cursed Child for his birthday. We’re taking down to Melbourne for the weekend, and hoping to catch up with two of the other kids from that mums’ group because they both live in Melbourne. 

Andrew: What’s Cursed Child?

Vicki: Yeah, no, I don’t know either.

Vashti: It’s a Harry Potter stage show.

Andrew: Oh right, I thought it was a band. I was going to say band.

Vashti: No, it’s a stage production of, it’s a Harry Potter themed stage production.

Vicki: See this goes to show where I fail at parenting. My kids aren’t into Harry Potter and I think I’d rather stab myself in the eye than go and watch a play about Harry Otter. I remember…

Vashti: Harry Otter!

Vicki: Whatever, Harry Potter. 

Andrew: Prime placement there, Honey.

Vicki: Do you remember when it as just as bad when I watched Lord of the Rings with you on a date. Do you remember what I said at the end of the movie? 

Andrew: That wasn’t a date.

Vicki: It was, it was one…

Andrew: No, no.

Vicki: Yeah.

Andrew: We went with friends. I didn’t want to go.

Vicki: I didn’t want to go.

Andrew: I didn’t want to go. 

Vicki: We got to the end of a three hour movie and I clearly remember saying, “Are you kidding me? After three hours it still hasn’t finished.”

Andrew: I slept for an hour during that movie. I actually slept. I went with John Cook. John Cook is the writer and director of the cartoon we did together. If you’re interested…

Vicki: No, don’t, don’t, don’t.

Andrew: It’s on YouTube.

Vicki: For the love of God, don’t.

Andrew: Go watch it, it’s called Sev Trek. S-E-V-T-R-E-K.

Vicki: Don’t, seriously, you will never get that time. You know, any time I wanted to, I couldn’t sleep, I would actually put that movie on, and I would go to sleep every single time. 

Andrew: Actually I was at a barbecue the other week with my brother, and Sev Trek came up, and he said, I showed that to the kids the other day. They loved it. My brother’s kids love it. It’s still bringing joy to people.

Vicki: He had to say that.

Andrew: I had to say that. I did it 15 years ago now, quite a while ago.

Vicki: Sixteen. It was before we were married.

Andrew: Sixteen.

Vicki: It was almost a deal-breaker.

Vashti: Well if a three hour Lord of the Rings is going to put you to sleep, you’ll be pleased to know that Cursed Child is actually two productions. There’s two shows, and each of them are about two and a half hours. 

Vicki: Yeah, nah, I don’t have that big an attention span.

Vashti: No.

Andrew: On the same day?

Vicki: I’m definitely the creative.

Vashti: So you can pick your days. So they generally have a matinee and an evening production on the weekends, or you can choose two evening productions that follow each other, or something like that. We have one last review to read, and it’s entitled, “Fun, informative and baby-brain friendly” and it’s five stars, from Chaotic Jingles. I love that name. Says, “What a fantastic podcast, answering common questions we all have about cloth nappies. Better yet, Vashti and Vicki are both mums as well, so they know first hand about all the fun that kids bring, including those lovely staining banana poops. I loved that it was short and sweet. Time-poor mum here with a short attention span”. Oh, she’s so us.

Vicki: She’s so on-trend for me.

Vashti: “Down to earth, informative and fun. I especially like the bloopers at the end. Now I’m going to…”

Vicki: The bloopers?

Vashti: Yeah, well that’s the first I’ve heard of that.

Andrew: [laughs]

Vashti: Oh, and here’s a little bit of product placement. Chaotic Jingles is now going to look up a Strucket as she feels like maybe she needs one of those in her life. 

Vicki: They’re actually pretty cool. 

Vashti: They are very awesome.

Vicki: I really need to actually, now my laundry is in…

Andrew: That’s that bucket thing you showed me, isn’t it?

Vashti: No.

Vicki: Strainer, meet bucket. It’s a strucket. 

Andrew: Right, OK.

Vicki: How many times did we hear Kelly say that? 

Vashti: Kelly has actually, she appeared on Innovation Australia, which is an ABC show over the weekend. Or a few weeks ago. She’s a finalist. The strucket has won so many awards. It is such an amazing product. We love it at Nest, absolutely love it. Actually, I’m nearly out of stock, I need to order some more, Kelly. 

Vicki: I think the only disadvantage is I suppose with any kind of container-y sort of thing is shipping. That is the only disadvantage.

Andrew: It’s big.

Vicki: No, it’s not that it’s big, it’s, you know, it’s bulky.

Vashti: It’s a large size, it’s bulky. It’s very, very light though. 

Vicki: But it’s like trying to, packing boxes fold down. A plastic bucket is not going to fold down.

Vashti: Or strucket. 

Vicki: Strucket, yes, is not going to fold down.

Andrew: Maybe she’d like to sponsor the show one day, because we’ve given her enough plugs.

Vashti: I think we might have to talk to Kelly about that. 

Andrew: The podcast is doing very well. We peaked at number 36 in kids and family. Which is pretty good. In New Zealand we peaked at 90. And two new countries. We’re now appearing in the top 100 in Singapore, we’re 90 in Singapore, and South Africa, we’re 60 in South Africa.

Vashti: Wow.

Vicki: Wow.

Andrew: So yeah, it’s slowly getting around the world, yes.

Vashti: It’s pretty awesome. Nice. 

Andrew: So today’s episode. It’s kind of, Vicki and Vashti are just back from Germany, for real this time, not like last time when we pretended they were back. And as you can see, they’re still friends.

Vashti: Just.

Andrew: Which is a good thing, after spending two weeks with each other. 

Vicki: It wasn’t that, it’s the plane flights. Like, it’s a long way. You don’t realise how long, and you just literally, you just want to go home. Just get me off this plane.

Vashti: The way over was 28 hours door to door, but the way back we were travelling for three days, pretty much.

Vicki: Because we thought we’d split it up.

Vashti: So we did like Croatia to Germany on the Thursday. And then on the Friday we went…

Vicki: The Friday afternoon, so we had all of this time, oh my gosh, just wanted to go home. I was like so close to tears so many times. I just want to go home, I just want to go home. 

Vashti: Even your phone, it had a little hissy fit, your phone, and it said that it was the power had gone, but then when you plugged it in, you had almost a full battery. And so I just remember looking at you going it’s OK, it’s OK, it will be OK.

Vicki: I just wanted to go home.

Vashti: Let’s get back to the hotel so you can plug it in.

Vicki: I think that’s just what happens the end of a holiday when you know that it’s coming, and then it was seven hours from Dusseldorf to Dubai, and like we stopped and had a shower and that sort of thing, but then that 14 hour trip home…

Andrew: The last leg.

Vicki: It’s awful. Even when you’re sleeping, you sleep for an hour and you wake up, are we not there yet? Are we not there yet? And then you arrive and it’s just awful.

Andrew: Next time I’m on a plane I’m going to push the little button to get the lady to come and I’m going to say, are we there yet? 

Vicki: I actually just really felt like Marge, you know Marge Simpson on that plane, get me off, get me off, get me off. That’s what it honestly felt like. So yeah.

Vashti: Well you did have the blue hair.

Vicki: I did, I did have the blue hair.

Andrew: That’s right. Is that why you had the blue hair, because you’ve got the last name of Simpson now?

Vicki: Maybe. My hairdresser didn’t want to do it because it goes green, as we can see. We did pink, purple and blue, and I think the purple lasted like two days. The pink is still there, but the blue is just hanging around like a bad smell.

Vashti: Looks pretty cool though. She got some really good looks in Germany. Everyone told her that she’d fit in. My goodness, yeah, no. No.

Vicki: No, no, no. 

Vashti: And I think anyone that we did see that had hair of a similar sort of colouring…

Vicki: Was pink. 

Vashti: But I don’t think they were locals, I think they were tourists as well.

Vicki: Yeah, yeah. I don’t know what we were kind of expecting. You expect, not that German people are progressive or anything like that. But they were a lot more conservative than I expected, that’s for sure. So yeah, did I stick out like dogs’ balls, like I did in China? Yeah, yeah, pretty much.

Andrew: That’s what you were going for, wasn’t it? 

Vashti: Sticking out like dogs’ balls?

Vicki: Well you know, my Mum saw my hair and she said, Honey, you don’t look like a C.E.O. You look like a teenager. Did you think before, and I didn’t, I just did it because it was Spring, and put some colour in my hair because you know, it’s Spring time. 

Vashti: And it’s fun, it is.

Vicki: But of course we went over to Autumn, so here I am with all my Spring clothes and all of that, and it’s like oh. It’s been cold here.

Vashti: Mind you, we were walking around in skirts and sandals. Well, you wore sandals.

Vicki: I wore sandals, until they broke. 

Vashti: But we were walking around in clothes that sort of…

Vicki: Weren’t appropriate for the weather. 

Vashti: Well they kind of worked, not really. But when you were inside you didn’t notice because everywhere is heated over there.

Vicki: The whole layering, that’s what we don’t do, OK, I’m not going to talk for people in Melbourne. In Brisbane, you do not layer. You’re pretty much just hot or cold, one or the other, and that’s the one thing I noticed in Germany is nobody’s ever cold. So they’d be all rugged up, whereas I’d be wearing short sleeves in 16 degrees, knowing that I was going inside in a few minutes, so I’d be warm. Whereas they tend to be dressed for the 16 degrees, and then have a coat on, and then take the coat off, and yeah, it’s just living in a different climate. I think we just put up with the extremes of temperatures, whereas they don’t see to. That seemed to be something they didn’t do in Germany.

Vashti: And there was cloak rooms everywhere, because everyone wore jackets. 

Vicki: Yeah, and everyone wore boots. I swear to God, on one day I was the only person in the whole of Germany wearing sandals. Because that was the day that I bought the hiking boots, I think.

Vashti: Yeah, that was our first day there.

Andrew: Because you wanted to fit in?

Vicki: No, because I was cold.

Vashti: But they were pink hiking boots that she’s been looking for.

Vicki: Do you remember how I went hunting for pink suede hiking boots, and I ended up with these retro blue kind of patchwork, really, really cool boots. I found my pink hiking boots while I was in Germany. 

Andrew: Cool, OK well before we turn into a travel show. So you both had goals going over there. Vicki, you went over there to find new retailers, and Vashti, you went over there to find new gadgets to bring back to your brand new store. 

Vashti: We did.

Andrew: Your brand new store is open. I forgot to mention, your brand new store is open.

Vashti: Yeah, my brand new store has been open for a while now.

Andrew: Yeah, it was open before you went. I haven’t been to it yet.

Vashti: Oh, you have to come. It’s gorgeous.

Andrew: Last time I saw it, it was a…

Vashti: Real estate.

Andrew: Real estate agent, yeah.

Vashti: Property management, property management.

Andrew: Did you get rid of them?

Vashti: I did, they’ve moved into our old store. We did a business swap.

Andrew: I can imagine. Honey, shall we buy this brand new house? I don’t know, Honey, we just came in here for nappies. 

Vashti: [laughs] That’s such a Dad joke. I’m only laughing because it’s so bad.

Andrew: You’re not actually laughing, you’re just sitting there, I’m actually putting a laughing track in.

Vashti: There you go. 

Vicki: Do you know who tells worse jokes than Andrew? Arabella. 

Vashti: Really?

Vicki: She takes after her father. Gosh, the jokes she comes out with, I swear she looks for the worst jokes on the internet. I’m sure that’s her Google search. 

Andrew: So what did you find?

Vashti: I found lots and lots of things. 

Andrew: Anything you’re allowed to mention yet?

Vashti: We’ve got one that’s in, we’ve got a few things. We brought back a few little bits and bobs that have gone out for testers. There’s one product I would love to mention, and I saw this…

Vicki: Maybe you should find out when the podcast is going to be released.

Andrew: November, this is November.

Vashti: Look, if this product goes ahead, it won’t be in store by the time this releases. This is probably, if it does come off, it won’t be until next year that we start stocking it.

Andrew: So watch the Nest Nappies Facebook page.

Vashti: Yeah, so this is…

Vicki: Is that the one, were they the guys that I dropped the C bomb to?

Vashti: Yeah. 

Vicki: Honestly, I’ll tell you the story. I won’t swear, don’t panic, I won’t swear. Anyway this guy, he was telling a story and he kept censoring himself. Now just remember, I can’t remember who was in the group, but it was all Aussies and Kiwis in this group.

Vashti: A couple of Americans.

Vicki: A couple of Americans and so these two guys were the head of an American company, and he kept censoring himself, saying F-ing this and stuff like that. And I turned around and I said, “Mate, you do realise that you’re talking to Aussies and Kiwis here? You can say, and I dropped the C bomb, and we won’t even care”. And I’ve never seen grown men so embarrassed. I think I actually crossed a line. I definitely crossed a line.

Vashti: The looks. This guy…

Vicki: And we were all drunk, by the way, just for the record, we were drinking a lot.

Andrew: So this wasn’t during the show?

Vicki: No, no, no.

Vashti: No, this was an cocktail event. So an after event. But this guy, he went bright red. Bright red. 

Vicki: It was hilarious.

Vashti: Then there was a woman there, who…

Vicki: I think she was a Kiwi though.

Vashti: But she was completely and utterly shocked. She’s like “Oh you can’t say that, oh my God, oh.” 

Vicki: The looks on the faces, and then everybody else was just like laughing.

Vashti: Kelly, and Jon and Liz and me, we were all just cracking up. We thought it was hilarious, especially their reactions.

Vicki: And then this other guy and I ended up chatting for like two hours.

Vashti: Something like that. 

Andrew: He probably felt comfortable with you.

Vicki: And he did not, he did not censor himself after that, funnily enough.

Vashti: But it was so funny, we rocked into that event, and we were with a couple of my suppliers that I knew. And I didn’t realise, you were a few people behind me, and you ended up on one edge of the group, and I was on the other. Then I suddenly turned around and realised that you were so far away and didn’t really know anyone. Oh crap, Vicki, I’ve left her with people she doesn’t know. But you were having a ball of a time. 

Vicki: Yeah, I’ll talk to anyone. Especially with a few wines in me. Actually I think it was a few vodkas. There was an awful lot of vodka consumed in the trip.

Vashti: Mind you, it was an all inclusive party. 

Vicki: They did some awesome food.

Vashti: Talk about the food later. But anyway the product, the product…

Andrew: You’re turning into a travel show. Stop turning this into a travel show.

Vashti: So the product that these guys stock is a nappy bag. The beautiful thing about this bag though, is it’s made from recycled ocean plastic. So all the material in it…

Vicki: That’s what I was talking about for two hours by the way, that really, really just hit my eco-heart.

Andrew: So what’s the situation, this is the plastic that comes up when they catch fish, is that what you’re saying? 

Vicki: Pretty much, yeah.

Vashti: Pretty much, they scoop it out of the ocean and recycle it into a fabric.

Vicki: Into a fibre. 

Vashti: So these bags are amazing. At the moment the hardware on the bag is brand new metals, but they’re working with their supplier to either use recycled metals or look at a way that they can recycle the ocean plastic into plastic hardware. So the idea is by, I think it’s 2021, that the bag will be from 100% recycled materials. The concept behind the business though started when Artie actually took his…

Vicki: You just gave out a name.

Vashti: I did, but that’s OK, the name doesn’t matter.

Andrew: I can beep it.

Vashti: No, it’s fine, but he took his daughter, they were out for dinner, and he took his daughter to change her nappy, and in America there’s no change tables in the men’s change rooms. In the men’s toilets. So he’s asked the restaurant manager, you know, where can I change my daughter? And the restaurant manager is just basically like, well there’s no change tables in there, the only change tables are in the women’s toilets and you can’t go there. So Artie ripped off his shirt, laid it down on the table in the restaurant and changed his daughter there, and then left the restaurant. But from that, it spawned this idea of this nappy bag with a built in change mat in it, and I am so impressed with the bag because the change mat can actually be removed, so that you can use the bag post baby.

Vicki: It’s actually not just like a pull out change mat that you get in just a random bag, which is just a flat kind of padded piece of thing. It is actually like…

Vashti: It’s attached to the…

Vicki: It’s almost like the table.

Vashti: And it folds out, and it’s got little flaps on the sides so your baby can’t roll over and everything… 

Vicki: It’s really cool.

Vashti: …like that, and it opens up so that you can get to everything in the bag. I was really, really impressed.

Vicki: It’s well designed. It’s really, really well designed.

Andrew: So it’s not just made of recycled stuff, but you actually liked the functionality of the bag.

Vashti: The functionality is great, absolutely great.

Andrew: Because sometimes you get things that are recycled, and the actual product is just a piece of crap.

Vashti: No, no.

Vicki: This was really well designed.

Vashti: Yep, well thought out. And they’ve put a lot of effort into it. And they’re constantly working on improving on it. I had a couple of really good long chats with them about it. And in the end, they gave me a bag to test. 

Andrew: Freebies.

Vashti: I did get a freebie, but it’s not for me. I will admit, I did use it as a cabin bag when we moved to Croatia, so I could test it out.

Vicki: That’s alright, I used Abbie’s bag that I bought her as a gift, as a cabin bag myself.

Andrew: Sh, don’t give that away. She might listen. 

Vicki: I don’t listen, you think our 15 year old is going to be listening?

Vashti: So I did test it out myself and I was really quite impressed with the usability and the functionality of it. It’s going out, well it will have gone out to one of our customers, so that they can actually test it as a nappy bag. So that will give us some feedback and once I know that it’s got the ability to, longevity, I suppose you could say, and that it does work really well, we’re going to look at bringing it in.

Andrew: Nice.

Vashti: Yes, so really, really impressed with them. But in line with that, one of the other brands that I saw, and I saw this quite regularly through a lot of the brands that I was looking at, is that there is this whole push to use recycled plastics and recycled materials. There’s a gift line and feeding line that I was looking at, it’s by a Danish company, and they use a lot of recycled plastic bottles and stuff like that. And they reduce their packaging, there’s very little packaging on their products. And it actually does say on the small amount of packaging, it says how many bottles went into making that product. So for a teething toy, which I know it sounds really weird, using recycled plastics for a teething toy, but it’s all sanitised and cleaned and everything.

Andrew: Does it taste like coke?

Vashti: No. But for a teething toy they would use 15, 600 ml water bottles or something like that, so it gives you an idea. But they make fabrics, and hard plastic and soft plastic feeding ware, and toys and stuff like that. And yeah, I’m looking into those as well, and we’ll give them a shot. And I just think, it’s just amazing that as a society we are looking at ways that we can reduce our impact on the environment, or utilise the things that are already being produced, rather than constantly producing new materials.

Vicki: Well plastic can only be recycled, it never, ever breaks down. And I was actually, I caught up with a manufacturer while I was there to discuss specifically recycled polyesters. And you know, the feasibility of actually doing that. I can’t give much away with that at all, because it may not come to fruition, because I know Top Spots do it.

Vashti: They do.

Vicki: It’s nowhere near as easy as it sounds. Actually making recycled fabrics and the products that Artie is making, it sounds so much easier than it really is.

Vashti: It’s a very difficult process.

Vicki: And that’s why it’s expensive. It’s why it’s incredibly expensive. It’s so much easier to create something from new. But certainly…

Vashti: But it’s exciting that there are companies out there that are spending the time on the research and the development and putting in that extra money to be able to produce a recycled product, rather than brand new materials. 

Vicki: Fixing a problem that is, and ocean waste is horrendous. Ocean plastic is horrendous, it’s a massive issue.

Vashti: And I think that’s what I loved about this bag, was that it was from recycled ocean plastic, not just plastic. Recycled ocean plastic. So they’re deliberately taking that waste out of the oceans.

Vicki: And they’re making it in an area that is notorious for it too. So it’s actually cleaning up an environment that has a massive problem there. And they’re taking basically rubbish and fixing it. Which is exciting. 

Vashti: And the fact that the bag, it can be used from birth all the way through.

Vicki: Well you used it as a cabin bag. You don’t have kids. Didn’t you just take the change mat out?

Vashti: I left the change mat in, but the change mat can be removed, I just left it in.

Vicki: And still be a perfectly functional bag. I didn’t get one. If you’re listening to this, Artie, I didn’t get one. 

Vashti: I’m going to send this to Artie and Luke. 

Andrew: Yeah, that just might be the bloopers at the back though. 

Vashti: But yeah, no, really, really impressed and really excited. Apparently there is…

Vicki: And the exciting part is actually talking to these people who are actually on the same page, that have the same ethics, that are not just in business to make money. Because certainly I find a lot of people that I talk to, it’s all about the money. Especially some of the contacts that I had. It was just all about the bottom line and the money but yeah, there’s so much more to the world and to life. You can run a business, you can make a profit, you can earn an income and still…

Vashti: Not compromise your ethics.

Vicki: Absolutely. You don’t have to be making millions of dollars. I think you can be happy. You know.

Vashti: That’s one of the things I liked about this company as well, is that Artie’s job prior to doing this was actually quite a high profile position, and he was earning some really, really good money.

Vicki: Good bucks.

Andrew: Was he a lawyer, was he?

Vashti: No, no.

Vicki: You can’t give away too much.

Vashti: I can’t tell too much. I’m being very careful about what I say. I’m sure people will start Googling and work it out, but…

Vicki: That’s why I didn’t mention a country, where they’re making it.

Vashti: But no, Artie had a very well paying job that he’s stepped back from to run this business.

Vicki: Because there’s more to life than money. There really is. 

Vashti: I’m pretty sure he’s taken a pay cut to do this, because this is something he’s passionate about.

Vicki: As a business owner, I can tell you know, he has absolutely taken a pay cut to follow a dream.

Vashti: His dream. And it’s a family business too, it’s him and one of his buddies, and their entire families are involved in it. And they’ve been really, really particular about the factories they’ve chosen, so it’s really ethically produced as well.

Vicki: Family run, smaller factories. And I think that’s why I really resonated so much with them, is because as I said, they’re on the same page. It’s actually about supporting the people that are making your products and actually caring about the production chain and stuff like that. But I still didn’t get a free bag. I would have given them a free nappy, if they have asked.

Vashti: We did have a play with the bag.

Vicki: We did.

Vashti: We got 14 candies in it. Was it 14?

Vicki: I don’t remember. I didn’t bring that many back, that’s for sure.

Vashti: No, well we decimated the rainbow plane with it, and then fixed the rainbow up again. But yeah…

Vicki: We got a fair whack in it.

Vashti: We got a huge amount of candies in there, and there was still room for bits and pieces in the side, and stuff like that. It’s pretty impressive.

Vicki: Which is unusual for nappy bags, they’re usually made for specifically disposable nappies. Because obviously cloth nappies take up a lot more room.

Vashti: And cloth nappies weren’t something that these guys thought about when they were making the bag. So it wasn’t even on their agenda.

Andrew: That’s disappointing, they were making recycled bag to carry plastic.

Vicki: Yeah, but you don’t know what you don’t know. You’ve got to remember that. Cloth is really only just started to explode now.

Vashti: And this is one of the other things, I was talking to one of my American suppliers over there, and he was saying how impressed he is with the percentage of people in Australia who use cloth nappies. And I’m like, what do you mean? And he said, well their per capita for cloth nappy use is only about 5% in America. Whereas here in Australia, what the latest survey had, up to 60% using them…

Vicki: Tried, tried.

Vashti: …tried them. Yeah. But on average, we had about 15 to 20% using them on a regular basis.

Andrew: But 5% of Americans is more than there are Australians. 

Vashti: Most definitely, yes.

Vicki: But they’ve still got the same amount of babies. 

Vashti: When you work it out on a percentage base…

Vicki: Five percent of babies are wearing cloth. 

Andrew: OK, cool.

Vashti: So it’s not like…

Vicki: Australia is a piss in the ocean. We’re a tiny, tiny country. We’ve got 23 million people.

Vashti: I think we’re 26, aren’t we?

Vicki: No. 

Andrew: No, I think we’re up to 24 actually.

Vashti: Twenty four. See, I need to go back to school.

Vicki: No, it keeps growing. Because everybody is still having one for the country. Which of course no international listener will understand that. We had a Prime Minister, was it John Howard?

Vashti: Yes.

Vicki: Yes, it was John Howard. Because the birth rate had dropped. So it was have one for mum, have one for dad, and have one for the country. So we have a lot of three child families now. Do you remember when it used to be literally two child families, and now three child families are more common?

Vashti: It’s the norm.

Vicki: Which I don’t know why, you’ve only got two hands, and two parents.

Vashti: Two parents.

Vicki: Don’t do it.

Vashti: No, don’t do it. Number three tips you over the edge.

Andrew: Don’t let the children outnumber the parents. 

Vicki: I don’t think our kids have actually realised that they do literally outnumber us and they could, what do they call it? The prisoners overtaking the prison or something. Mutiny, mutiny. It kind of feels like that some days.

Andrew: So I didn’t actually ask, what was the name of the show you went to again?

Vicki: Kind + Jurgen. 

Andrew: Excellent, I’m sure that will be excellent for the transcriber.

Vashti: It means child and baby or, it is the biggest baby show in the world. 

Andrew: Are you going back?

Vicki: Uh huh, yep.

Vashti: I want to go back.

Andrew: Excellent, OK, so we’ll get some more gadgets. Any more gadgets you want to talk about? Or that you’re allowed to talk about?

Vashti: A few that I saw. Lots of nappy brands from overseas that we don’t see here in Australia, and I brought a few of them back to send out with testers. We’ve got a couple out already with testers. 

Vicki: And I’m kind of kicking myself that I didn’t go and visit the other stands. I was really hesitant from the fact that I’m, I didn’t want people to think that I was spying on what they were doing. And this is where we found a lot of cultural differences. You know, it’s a typical Aussie thing to kind of just be friendly and kind of say hi because somebody is in the same industry, but I was really, really concerned with that being essentially a competitor.

Andrew: Well here in Australia, all you guys know each other.

Vashti: Most of us, yeah.

Vicki: We work together. But I just, I hadn’t done the ground work to make sure that they knew that that is why I would be coming up to say hi.

Andrew: Well you did also have some people who, like we’ve got the A.N.A. in Australia, some people say they want to start that in their country as well.

Vicki: In Germany, yeah. In Germany there’s a couple of consultants/advocates over there that are looking to create a similar sort of…

Vashti: Association.

Vicki: …association, and we kind of gave them a lot of pointers on how to start. I mean, it took forever to get the A.N.A.

Vashti: It took about three years.

Vicki: And it’s still hard now. Actually the A.G.M. would have been and gone by the time this has come up. But actually even getting people on board to do stuff. It’s like any volunteer organisation. Everyone has all the idea and want to do, we could do this, we could do that. But when it comes down to physically doing it, it’s really hard to find the people that are prepared to do the grunt work, because it is volunteer. I’ve been the president for three years, and I’m, hate to say it, but I’m hoping that someone will take it over because I’m so busy. And unfortunately that’s what everybody says. I’m so busy, I’m so busy. It’s like well I’m busy too, but it’s important that we do continue to advocate and educate the community, because that’s the only way that cloth nappy growth will continue to grow.

Andrew: And you get people asking you all the time, emailing you saying, how come this hasn’t been done? How come that hasn’t been done?

Vicki: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew: Basically we haven’t got a volunteer yet, do you want to help here?

Vicki: That is always my comeback. We don’t have anybody that has put their hand up, would you like to do it? Crickets. Every single time it’s crickets. But I’m one person, Vashti is one person. Within any volunteer organisation, once your kids get to school, the P&C is exactly the same. It is a core group of people that put their hand up to do the same things over and over. I remember running the jam stall at our fete three years in a row, making 700 odd jars of jam. And then having to say no. And I felt so bad that I said no, because nobody ended up doing it that year at all. But there comes a point where it’s like you know what? I have actually done my time. I’ve given everything that I can, and it’s somebody else’s turn.

Andrew: I’ve done my sentence. It’s time to get somebody else.

Vicki: That’s exactly right, so I’m hoping someone will take over the president’s role. It’s actually not a difficult role. It’s a lot of delegating, but a lot of follow up, and a lot of, you know…

Andrew: Work.

Vicki: Yeah, it is. It’s not a lot of physical work, it’s a lot of follow up and a lot of constantly being on the ball.

Vashti: Contactable.

Vicki: And being the one that cops, you literally have to put your hand up and say yeah, no, that was my decision. I had the final say on that. Good and bad things.

Vashti: The buck stops with the president. 

Vicki: Absolutely. Always the bad things, so you have to be prepared to put your hand up and say well, you know what? I know this is an unpopular choice that I’ve made, but it had to be made for these reasons, and I’ll put my hand up and say yeah, I made that choice.

Vashti: But you don’t make those choices on your own, you make them with the support and guidance of the people who’ve been working on that project and the rest of the board members. And you take, under advisement, everything that those people have said, and then you make the final decision. 

Vicki: Like cancelling the cloth nappy award. That was a classic example of it wasn’t my decision. It was…

Vashti: It was pretty much unanimous.

Vicki: …I was pushing not to make this decision. Please don’t do this, please don’t. But with all of the information that was gathered, we had no choice. 

Vashti: But that was a pretty unanimous decision amongst the board members…

Vicki: It was.

Vashti: …that there wasn’t another way that we could have gone forward with that.

Vicki: And also when we put the information to the members as well. You know what? At the end of the day, it was pretty much, it was obvious what the decision had to be, but I was the one that had to say uh huh, I’ve put my hand up for this. And it’s hard. 

Andrew: Can I ask why the cloth nappy awards were cancelled this year?

Vicki: There was just data integrity issues. More than anything, we could not, we put it out to multiple third party I.T. people…

Vashti: Organisations.

Vicki: …yeah, organisations, to actually try and verify the data. We tried to recoup what we could, and there was just no way that, because at the end of the day, I had to put my, well the board had to put their stamp of approval and go yep, these are the results, this is what the public has voted. And at the end of the day, we couldn’t. Not one person that we outsourced that to was prepared to say yeah, that’s legit. So we just had some integrity issues. But what we’ve done is we’ve learned from that. We’ve learned that we’ll use a different format, rather than just…

Vashti: On our website.

Vicki: Yeah, yeah we’ll actually host it like on Google forms or something similar to that. 

Vashti: That will give us a lot more…

Vicki: See everything has to be, because it’s a volunteer organisation, each and every one of us…

Vashti: Has a vested interest.

Vicki: …have a vested interest. So underlying it all, it was making me feel sick, because I was even talking to our solicitor about it. I had a conflict. And I kept putting it back to her. I can’t answer this because I have a conflict. I have a vested interest in this, so I can’t answer these questions. I can’t be the one to make this decision, because it doesn’t just affect me, it affects everybody. So we have definitely learned from this process, and we’ll probably bring the awards closer to the beginning of the year rather than the middle of the year. But I feel sorry for the likes of Leanne from Baby Beehinds, who puts hour and hours and hours into the running of the award. Like for months, this goes on for months.

Vashti: The organisation, the planning, the sponsorship. All the graphics and all the designs and the emails that go out. There’s so much work.

Vicki: The awards…

Vashti: Leanne normally starts on the awards, which are run in July, around about…

Vicki: About March or April.

Vashti: Yeah, March, she first started putting stuff together. 

Vicki: So it’s a hugely disappointing outcome for everybody. Especially Leanne, I really felt really bad for her. But you know, it is what it is, and you learn from your mistakes, I guess. 

Andrew: So before the podcast started, we were talking about advocates over there. You came across a lot of advocates for cloth nappies.

Vicki: That was a German, it was very much a German kind of, that was the way they did it in Germany. 

Vashti: And Netherlands. 

Vicki: Oh, was it?

Vashti: Yeah, there was quite a few Netherland advocates as well. So Holland. Because that’s reasonably close there as well. So quite a few of them that we spoke to were from there. But very German based.

Andrew: And what do they do?

Vicki: They pretty much, it’s like one on one consults. Usually in somebody’s home.

Andrew: So they come around, show you cloth nappies.

Vicki: The one thing I didn’t get to really ask, I suppose I didn’t think to ask, is how they get those contacts. Where the start is. I actually don’t know how they get to being in the house. I didn’t ask that. I was just fascinated with the process. Because different countries do things differently, obviously. It was just oh wow, oh wow, they just do like a lot of one on one consults. They just bring all of the nappies over and discuss different options. But I never, ever asked that question. So I’ll have to ask Sarah. I can’t actually fill the whole story in, and I’ve only just thought about it then. I don’t know that happens, whether it’s a Google ad, or how they get to there. But there’s generally consultants in different towns.

Andrew: They probably just something like they’re in their version of the Yellow Pages or something.

Vicki: Maybe, yeah.

Vashti: Or the internet.

Vicki: Or Facebook groups.

Andrew: They have the internet too?

Vashti: Yeah. 

Vicki: Remember what I said about Australia being a piss in the ocean? 

Vashti: Remember what you said about bad jokes? 

Vicki: Yeah, yeah.

Andrew: I’m curious, because it actually came up in, when I read the reviews, because I read them all. Somebody actually said in a review, that she’s so glad for the podcast because her mother was absolutely no help, because modern cloth nappies didn’t exist when her mother was doing cloth nappies. She was just doing, she can help obviously with the flats and everything like that, but couldn’t help with modern cloth nappies.

Vashti: We get that a lot at Nest, where new parents come in, and they’ve got their parents with them, or their mum with them, so the grandma’s sitting there going well no, I used flats, so I can teach you how to fold a flat. And they’ll actually pull a flat out and fold it there on the counter and they haven’t folded one for 30 years.

Andrew: That’s because they’ve done 10,000.

Vashti: But…

Vicki: It’s actually six, but anyway.

Vashti: I had a grandma in yesterday. Mum’s on the Sunshine Coast and grandma was in Brisbane for something else, and actually dropped in, walked out with half a dozen brand new nappies for her daughter and grandchild, and she’s just like, I’m just so overwhelmed because I’m used to flats. And I don’t understand this. So quite a few times she rang her daughter and passed the phone over to me, and we were chatting on the phone. But we came up with a good little stash for her to try. A few different things. But yeah, it is very overwhelming for grandparents, because it’s not something they’re used to. It’s slowly changing, I’m slowly starting to get a couple of younger grandparents through that are aware of what’s going on, because modern cloth was starting to emerge, just as they were nearing the end of their cloth nappy journey. But yeah, it’s definitely not something that…

Vicki: It’s like anything. My Dad died 25, 26 years ago, something like that, and sometimes I often think, what has actually changed in the last 25, 26 years? And when you think about it, I remember we had a microwave, so I think microwave technology was fairly new about 25 odd years ago. But you look at just, we had an old Commodore computer. You look at the technology that’s come through, like iPads and iPhones, all of that sort of stuff. And older generations do struggle with that as well, because it’s not, it’s all new.

Vashti: You think, when we were at high school there was no, I know when I went to high school we actually had a typing class, where we used old school typewriters that you had to actually sit there and press the keys really hard and back space…

Vicki: Gosh no, we had electronic ones. 

Vashti: We had the old one.

Vicki: How old are you?

Andrew: I didn’t do that course because I thought that I’ll never need to use a keyboard.

Vicki: We had a computer lab in our school.

Vashti: We had a computer lab, but you had to be doing specific classes to be able to get into that computer lab, and it wasn’t just for anyone to go. Now I look at my kids going through and they’ve all got their own devices for each class, and there’s also computers in the library, and they have their computer labs as well. And if they’ve got a free period, then they can go down to the computer lab and type up their assignments. Or if they’re working in the library after school, they can just go in and use the computers. My five year old can use an iPad better than me, some days. So the kids have grown up with this technology. My kids would have no idea what a cassette is. 

Vicki: That’s right yeah.

Andrew: Yes, they would. They’re coming back. I read an article the other day, just like records, cassette tapes are coming back too.

Vashti: Really? Do you remember when you actually had to break the little tab off, because you didn’t want anyone to record over your cassette, or you’d be sitting there listening to the radio and waiting to press record, and you’d always miss the first two seconds of the song that you wanted. Or you’d get the disc jockey talking over the beginning of the song. And it’s like dammit, now I need to go back and find the song again. 

Andrew: You know that’s illegal, don’t you?

Vashti: Whoops. Don’t tell anyone. I’m sure the Statute of Limitations has expired. 

Andrew: That’s right, mine’s definitely expired on cassette tapes. 

Vicki: I’m pretty sure that’s an American thing. 

Andrew: That’s right, Copyright Law I Australia is forever.

Vicki: OK, even as far as pausing live T.V. that is something that, we used to have to run to the T.V. Everything is on demand. I think of all the little things that we really take for granted, power steering in cars, air conditioning, standard in cars and stuff like that.

Vashti: There’s no winding windows down. Press a button now.

Vicki: No, press a button. All of these things over the last 25 years, I wonder what my Dad would think if he was still around today.

Vashti: I think he’d be pretty impressed with what you’ve done with cloth nappies.

Vicki: Probably. Probably. My brother, here’s a story…

Andrew: No, run out of time.

Vicki: No, no. I’ve worked through this, I’m not angry at him any more. I bought a new Mac, and I’d spent, how much was it? two and a half grand.

Andrew: It was four grand.

Vicki: It was not, I do not spend that much on a computer, it was two grand.

Andrew: Sorry, that was mine.

Vicki: Whatever. And my brother, it was a MacBook, which I still have, and I’m still  using a couple of years later, thank you very much. And my brother actually replied to my post on Facebook and said, why would you need a computer like that? All you do is a bit of bookkeeping. And I was horrified. I was absolutely horrified that he thought my business was a little bit of bookkeeping, and it took my quite some time to work out what, underlying issues and all of that, because I didn’t have my Dad to say I’m proud of what you’ve built. But trust me, every time he comes anywhere near the place, I rub his face in it. Oh, can you see my little bit of bookkeeping down here, Steve? Can you see these staff that are doing a little bit of bookkeeping, Steve?

Andrew: I bring him to the warehouse. This is where we keep all our paperwork. How big is this warehouse?

Vicki: I don’t know.

Andrew: We need a 500 square foot warehouse now to store all the bookkeeping you do.

Vicki: That’s right, all the bookkeeping. 

Andrew: And you see these people down here in the warehouse? They’re just running around putting…

Vicki: Paperwork away.

Andrew: Bookkeeping in a bag for people. So we’ve called you out, Steven.

Vicki: Siblings, siblings, don’t you just love it?

Andrew: So any other things you’d like to say? Because we’ve almost been going an hour now.

Vicki: Probably.

Vashti: I will say…

Vicki: German food.

Vashti: Oh yeah. 

Vicki: But can I tell you, I have to say…

Andrew: Stop turning it into a travel show.

Vicki: No, no, I’m going to put it out there. The food in Germany was amazing. Croatia. Not going to lie, I was a little disappointed. I was a lot disappointed. 

Vashti: Actually, yes.

Vicki: In particular the wine.

Vashti: Except for the truffle fries.

Vicki: No, the truffle fries were awesome. Can I tell you, the truffle mayo that I brought back is not as good as I remembered there?

Andrew: I almost threw up when I tasted it.

Vashti: Oh really?

Andrew: It’s disgusting.

Vicki: No, it’s not as nice as what we had.

Vashti: I put it through my potato salad the other night. It’s actually really nice through a potato salad.

Vicki: Oh nice. But the wine, I was really surprised. Croatia known for grapes, figs and olives. I did try an olive and I hate olives…

Vashti: And lavender.

Vicki: …and I spat it out, I could not eat it, I tried it. But the wine, I was really disappointed in the wine that I tasted.

Andrew: Is it made out of olives?

Vicki: Maybe.

Vashti: See, I didn’t mind it, there was a couple that I wasn’t overly impressed with, but we drank more cocktails in Croatia than wine.

Vicki: I think we spend the whole entire three days…

Vashti: There was actually little stalls on the promenade where you could get cocktails to go. Cocktails to go.

Vicki: You know, the most…

Andrew: You’re allowed to walk around with alcohol?

Vicki: Yes.

Vashti: Yes, there was people walking around. In Germany there was people, you walk to the 4 Square, like the convenience store across the road, just a tiny little convenience store, hole in the wall, and we bought…

Vicki: They had half the shop was alcohol.

Vashti: Yeah, we bought wine, and what did you buy? You bought a vodka or something, didn’t you? 

Vicki: No, I think it was cider.

Vashti: Cider, I don’t know. And then we went and sat up on the terrace and had a couple of drinks and watched the stars.

Vicki: No, no, I think it was vodka and…

Vashti: A vodka tinny.

Andrew: Watched the stars…

Vicki: So then I went back down and got another one.

Andrew: Watched the stars, what’s that metaphor for, watching stars? The real stars, or the stars you get from the alcohol? 

Vashti: No. But what I will say is going to that trade show did put in perspective just how small we are here in Australia.

Vicki: We’re tiny.

Vashti: Like our baby expos that we do here, our consumer expos, I’m not even talking about, this was purely a business to business expo, it was not a retail expo. Our retail expos here in Australia would be about a quarter of the size of one of those floors. The hall we were in had three floors, and there were three separate halls, with two or three floors each. It was just…

Andrew: Just business to business.

Vashti: It is just business to business. It is worldwide, it was absolutely incredible. And the other thing that really threw us was the OH&S. Or lack thereof.

Vicki: We walked in there, I kid you not, to set up, and no safety jackets, OK I understand…

Vashti: Open toe shoes.

Vicki: …Australia is very much kind of like a nanny country. There were babies and kids running around, and the forklift drivers [quack quack] they barely even beeped. 

Vashti: They were flying down the aisles and squealing to a stop and racing around the corner, almost skidding around the corner.

Vicki: With no safety jackets, and kids on the floor. 

Vashti: And cigarettes hanging out of their mouth as well.

Vicki: Do you know what, the one thing I really struggled with the smoking.

Vashti: We went to a pub one night, and you’re like let’s sit outside. No, no, they’re smoking out there.

Vicki: But everyone, it’s just, you don’t realise how much it’s just stopped in Australia, the external smoking.

Vashti: But we sat inside and there was a window right above, a window open right above where they were smoking, so smoke was coming inside the restaurant area anyway.

Vicki: It’s like you couldn’t escape it. Like just walking down the street, literally. And as a reformed smoker, I noticed it way more than a non-smoker would. I just felt like I couldn’t escape it. It was really, yeah. Really hard to…

Andrew: OK, I think we’ll end it on a…

Vicki: On a smoking note. 

Vashti: Pretty amazing.

Vicki: Just don’t smoke, isn’t that you, or Brenno? Just don’t smoke. 

Vashti: Pretty awesome. Definitely looking forward to going back.

Vicki: And both beautiful countries. 

Andrew: Thank you Vicki.

Vicki: Thanks Andrew.

Andrew: Thank you Vashti.

Vashti: Thanks, Andrew.

Andrew: Bye everybody. 

[Music]

Andrew: Vicki Simpson is a wife and mother to three children, President of the Australian Nappy Association and owner and founder of Bubblebubs. Vicki has been making and selling cloth nappies through her website for 15 years. Bubblebubs is now one of the most recognised and awarded cloth nappy brands in Australia, and is currently expanding to other countries. You can find out more and contact her through her website, bubblebubs.com.au. Vashti Wadwell is mother to three children and has been using cloth nappies for 13 years. She is the owner of Australia’s first cloth nappy store, Nest Nappies, located in Brisbane, Australia. She can be contacted through her website, nestnappies.com.au. If you would like to give us feedback, go to nappyleaks.com.au. If you are finding this podcast helpful, the way to thank us is to leave feedback in the iTunes store or wherever you listen to podcasts. I am your host, Andrew Simpson. 

[Music]

Vashti: I need to pee.

Andrew: That’s going in the out…

Following on from the success of our previous Live Podcast, we decided to do another one! Caitlyn is our special guest for this month’s Q+A. Caitlyn is mum to Hugo, he is a gorgeous energetic 14-month-old who has starred in several Bubblebubs videos. She asks Vashti and Vicki about encouraging other parents to try cloth, the expected lifespan of cloth nappies and whether using different brands as baby grows and changes shape is normal?

This Nappy Leaks episode is recorded in front of a live studio audience… and by “live studio audience” we mean in the Bubblebubs warehouse with an audience that was 50% babies! But we all had a great time and it was good to be able to pick Vashti and Vicki’s brains in person.

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Vashti and Vicki discuss the adjustments that need to be made to switching later. A lot of parents who switch later and pregnant with another child and want to start with the toddler to dip their toes, this is a great way to approach it so it’s second nature before you’re in the newborn haze. The other advantage is once your child is 12 or 18 months old usually parents have started to find their feet and are less overwhelmed so it’s a good time to try something new. You can change as much or as little as you want, trying cloth wipes is a great first step. Listen to the full podcast to learn more about transitioning to using cloth nappies with an older baby or toddler.

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Nappy Leaks is recorded in front of a live studio audience. I always wanted to say that, but I do have a few corrections. We were not in a studio we were in the office of Bubblebubs and the studio audience was 18 and 50% of those were babies. But it was fun doing this series of live show were the audience asked Vicki and Vashti all the questions.

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This week the ladies started by discussing heavy wetters but the discussion veers into leaks. Leaks can be caused by a variety of things and the ladies go into a few of those ways and how to fix them. Most children go through stages of heavy wetting at various times through their development but some children definitely do produce more urine generally than other children. For children like this fitteds, flats and pre-folds are a great option for extra boosting.

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Nappy Leaks is recorded in front of a live studio audience. I always wanted to say that, but I do have a few corrections. We were not in a studio we were in the office of Bubblebubs and the studio audience was 12 and 50% of those were babies. But it was fun doing this series of live show were the audience asked Vicki and Vashti all the questions.

Continue reading…

Nappy Leaks is recorded in front of a live studio audience. I always wanted to say that, but I do have a few corrections. We were not in a studio we were in the office of Bubblebubs and the studio audience was 18 and 50% of those were babies. But it was fun doing this series of live show were the audience asked Vicki and Vashti all the questions.

Continue reading…

We do another 8 reasons people give up cloth nappies. We talk about nappy rash and how it happens, kids not sleeping through the night, my husband demanding to use disposables. Jenna also joined us and you all know what happens, we record for 90 minute and I can only use 50 minutes of it.

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Our guest is Jenna, she has just gone through toilet training which she booked 12 days on the calender. Vashti and Vicki grill Jenna on how she toilet trained her son in just 12 days.

Transcript: Toilet Training On A Schedule

Andrew: Welcome to Nappy Leaks with Vicki Simpson and Vashti Wadwell. How are you doing, Vashti?

Vashti: Good thanks Andrew, how are you today?

Andrew: Excellent. Vicki, how are you doing?

Vicki: Yeah good, how are you Andrew?

Andrew: Not too bad. And we’ve got a guest. Anybody want to guess who the guest is?

Vashti: Shock horror, I wonder who it could be?

Andrew: It’s Bunnicas. We know who’s in the room, nobody else knows who’s in the room.

Vicki: People can make educated guesses.

Vashti: Hi Jenna.

Jenna: Hello.

Andrew: How are you doing Jenna?

Jenna: You missed an opportunity, you could have asked me how I was first and pissed both of them off.

Andrew: Yeah true, it’s an even episode so Vashti gets it. Vashti gets evens, Vicki gets odds.

Jenna: I like that you’ve had to develop a system. 

Andrew: That’s right, otherwise they fight. Disposable nappies win every time.

Jenna: Yes, we don’t want that. 

Vashti: That’s still a crappy joke [laughter].

Jenna: And that’s even worse. 

Andrew: It’s funny, having a dig at it gets more laughs than the actual joke.

Jenna: We used to have a term for that at our old office called Shane-ing, when the person telling the joke is more funny than the actual joke itself because they can’t get it out, or someone else makes it come back. It’s much funnier than the joke. It’s called Shane-ing. Guess who it was named after?

Andrew: I like that.

Vashti: Shane?

Jenna: He was not a funny guy. 

Vicki: We could call it Andrew-ing.

Jenna: Andrew-ing? We can call it Andrew-ing from now on, makes a bit more sense. 

Vicki: Because he aint a funny guy. 

Jenna: It’s a Dad joke, he’s meant to make horrible jokes, it’s his job.

Vicki: He is, and he’s very good at it. 

Jenna: See?

Andrew: That’s the only reason I’m here.

Jenna: You’re killing it. 

Vashti: No, you do the tech stuff as well. We’ll keep you around for that.

Jenna: And he’s got the really good podcast velvet voice when you listen to it.

Andrew: No, I’ve told you before, that’s an effect.

Jenna: Well can the rest of us have it?

Andrew: Very expensive software that does that for me. 

Vicki: Did I pay for it?

Jenna: Shh, she can hear, she can hear. 

Andrew: So what did you guys think of that live day we did a little while ago now? Remember that?

Vashti: Yeah, that was awesome.

Andrew: Did you like that?

Vicki: It was a lot of fun. I’m having flashbacks to…

Jenna: I was going to say, Vicki had a small emotional problem.

Vicki: Yeah, that was a very emotional day where I had…

Jenna: I got to be Vicki.

Vicki: I had to go to bat for my daughter.

Andrew: Good news is, she’ll be in her new school by then. 

Vicki: And the nose piercing will be out. The irony of all of it.

Jenna: I remember stealing a lot of newborns that day. 

Vashti: You did.

Jenna: I was finally getting a little less scared of the whole second kid thing and I was just like sniff this baby, sniff this baby. I was like here, I’ll hold it. I got vomited on by two or three kids, it was great. 

Andrew: Yeah, I asked you to send me some pictures of the day and every picture you sent me was you holding a baby.

Vicki: Yeah, and she wore the same jeans the next day. That had vomit on them, remember?

Jenna: No, no, no, that’s a bit, that did happen but it’s a video you’re thinking of. No, I didn’t wear them the next day. Andrew said aren’t you going to go, so we were recording a video and I got vomited on, and Andrew looked at me and said aren’t you going to go home and change? And I was like, no. Why would I? It didn’t even occur to me. What was the point in that? I’ve walked around with a lot more vomit on me before. Never had a job I got thrown up on before. 

Vashti: It’s a new experience. Wait until you get pooped on. 

Andrew: Maybe at this one, because we’re going to have another live on. Tuesday the 30^th of July is our live podcast. So on to today’s subject.

Vicki: Hear that Mum? Please don’t book anything for Tuesday the 30^th. No appointments. That would be nice.

Jenna: Oh also my Mum, if you could not do that so you can look after my child, that would be great. 

Andrew: And you know what? We know they listen too, because they’re the three listeners we’ve got. 

Vicki: That’s right.

Jenna: No joke, my Dad has listened to the podcast. I made him. You know when you said, I did Episode 6 or 8 or something or other, and there’s this real spike, and it’s because I forced everyone I know to listen to it. My Dad listened to an entire podcast about cloth nappies.

Andrew: Episode 6 is the third most listened to episode.

Jenna: Yeah, because I share it all the time, because whenever people ask about travelling with cloth, it’s an easy one to send them.

Andrew: Listen to what I say, that’s what you say isn’t it?

Jenna: Yeah, just do what I tell you to. 

Andrew: So today, the reason Jenna is here is because Jenna blocked out some time on her calendar to toilet train her son.

Jenna: And she’s been copping crap for it too.

Andrew: That’s right, copping, like Michael Hyde is one of my favourite authors and he says, “The most memorable things will not be something you check off a to do list.”

Jenna: That’s everything, I put everything on a to do list. What do you not… what you need to understand, dear listener, is that Andrew and Vicki are anarchists.

Vicki: No, we’re not, we’re yin and yang. Andrew is completely different to me. 

Jenna: He still makes fun of my love of organisation. 

Vicki: You two are the organised ones. I’m the completely just…

Vashti: No, no, that’s not true. 

Jenna: Does that sound believable, Andrew?

Andrew: Don’t worry, I can sound it so it sounds more believable later.

Jenna: Good, good, that filter is really good. 

Vicki: But see Andrew just follows my lead. I think that’s probably…

Jenna: That’s absolutely right, you talk about it all the time, surrounding yourself with complementary people. I haven’t got the constant push forward, that constant drive you have, all the coming up with the ideas and stuff. I’m not that person. But I can take the idea and do work with them. Do stuff with them. Shh Andrew.

Vicki: And see even I didn’t swear before. 

Andrew: I’m going to beep you out.

Jenna: You can bleep me. I’ll try and keep it…

Vashti: She did correct herself.

Jenna: I did immediately correct myself.

Andrew: I might put a duck sound in, just to be…

Jenna: That’s a lot more discouraging than a beep, because a beep is kind of cool. It’s very rap, whereas the duck sound is not great.

Vashti: Do a moo, a cow. 

Jenna: That’s discouraging. That’s discouraging. Don’t give him ideas.

Andrew: And so I don’t have to pay anybody for the moo sound, I’ll just say it myself. 

Jenna: Now you’ve just got to keep up with it and do it live. 

Andrew: So…

Vicki: And that would be funny, so now you have to do it again. [laughter]

Andrew: So onto the subject.

Jenna: What are we doing?

Andrew: How did you toilet train your son?

Jenna: Magic.

Andrew: How many days, you blocked out 12 days?

Jenna: I blocked out 12 days. I’d seen around all the Facebook groups and the Mummy groups and all those things. I’d seen the Oh Crap Potty Training book recommended a lot by Jamie, I do not know how to pronounce her last name. It starts with a G and it’s got a lot of letters in it. And so I read that book when we were away in the Philippines.

Vicki: We’ll put that in the show notes. Not. Does anything ever go in the show notes?

Jenna: It does. I do it all. 

Andrew: No, the show notes now are just…

Vicki: Hey Siri, send a text message to Jenna to remember to put stuff in the show notes.

Andrew: Oh no, you’re breaking a podcast rule, you’re not allowed to say…

Siri: OK.

Andrew: …the thing word. Because everybody’s device at home will now be trying to send Jenna a message [laughter].

Vicki: Sorry, not sorry. What if I asked Alexa? 

Vashti: Or Google. Hey Google, order…

Jenna: OK, so I read that book while we were away, much to the amusement of all the childless people who were on a kind of group holiday for someone’s wedding and everyone’s relaxing by the pool, and they kept looking over at my toilet training book and laughing at my life.

Vicki: You were secretly laughing too, weren’t you. Or were you sobbing?

Jenna: I was laughing. A little bit of both. Probably laughing, I embraced it. I am super cool. And we…

Andrew: So no guys came up to you while you were reading this book?

Jenna: No, no. Oddly enough, no. You don’t get hit on a lot when you’ve got a two year old on top of you. 

Andrew: Not even when you’re reading a book, he was reading it as well, was he?

Jenna: Most of the time. You can’t actually ditch them. They’re not as old as your kids. You can’t just leave them alone.

Andrew: We’ve done that from birth. 

Vicki: Shh, you’re not meant to tell people.

Andrew: It’s alright, they’re grown up now.

Vicki: And they’re not at all screwed up at all.

Jenna: I think we all screw our kids up. The idea is to try and do it in a really unique way that other people haven’t screwed up their kids. Try and find a really different, for instance accidentally teach your child that sharks eat penises. That’s a really good one to do. 

Andrew: Really?

Jenna: It did not say not to do that in any of the books I read. 

Andrew: So he won’t go in the ocean now?

Jenna: No, no, just little plastic sharks. I tried to get it to eat his toe once and he grabbed it. He’s like no Mummy, penis shark. And tried to eat his penis with the shark. I said oh, I’ve broken him already. And Vashti, spot the person who’s heard this story 600 times. Vicki’s just sitting there calmly.

Andrew: I want to see you go to Sea World. [inaudible, laughing 09:17]

Vicki: Penis shark, doo doo doo doo doo doo. Penis shark, doo doo doo doo doo doo.

Jenna: Every mother out there now hates us because we’ve got that song in our head. What were we talking about? Toilet training?

Andrew: You blocked out 12 days.

Jenna: So we looked on our calendars and we blocked out, we decided to keep him, he goes to family day care two days a week, and we decided to keep him home for a week. So we started the day after he goes to day care, so Saturday all the way through to the next Wednesday. So 12 days we blocked out on the calendar to just focus on toilet training and just do that and life revolved around that a little bit. We were giving him the best support we could to give him the most success. So we did the first three days of toilet training completely nude. Which he was thrilled about. In winter, not great timing, we just ran the heater. 

Vicki: In Queensland.

Jenna: In Queensland, yep.

Vicki: Because it’s 20 degrees.

Jenna: Have you been in our house? It’s an icebox.

Vicki: Queensland houses are freezing. Absolutely freezing.

Jenna: I overdress all the time, I’m currently wearing a jumper and I’m way overdressed for where we are right now because my house is freezing and I forget that. So he was naked for three days, which he thought was brilliant. He’s never had so much access to his penis. That was interesting for all of us.

Vicki: Neither has his shark.

Jenna: Neither has his shark. Little boys are lot of fun when they’ve got access to their penis. I heard the words “Mummy, penis too big” a lot. And had to try and explain if you want it to go small again you’ve got to stop touching it.

Andrew: Words you’ll never hear again.

Jenna: His Dad did think it was a bit funny. He did really good. The morning of the first day he started, he was crouching down on the mat trying to do something and he started to do a poo. He jumped up on his own, before we could get to him, ran over to the potty and finished it on the potty. So we were pretty proud. Day one, he was ready. As Vicki says, he was ready. He knew what to do. We would have toilet trained him sooner if it wasn’t for the trip. I didn’t want to take a newly toilet trained kid overseas on the plane. That seemed like a horrible idea. So we did that for the first three days. Then the book recommends going commando, so they forget the muscle memory of having something on their butt and thinking that they can poop in it or pee in it. So he went, we did commando. We started and I put tights on him without really thinking about it. Every time we put them on for the first two days he pooped and I was like what the heck is happening? You were doing so good. But I don’t want to end up with you only naked toilet trained. And then I reread the section in the book and it made a real point to say baggy clothes. So I switched the tights out for some baggy track pants and it was much better. So I really do think that that muscle memory thing has a good point. In the book she says that she recommends, she used to say if you can, commando for a month is a good idea, but now she’s moved to thinking it’s really integral. Integral to do. So that’s what she recommends. We’re actually starting underwear this weekend. First time, first undies this weekend. So we’ll see if we take a backward step or how he goes from there.

Vicki: I think he’ll be fine. We did it in three days with all the kids.

Jenna: He’s doing so good. He did have an accident yesterday, but we’ve just built him a pretty spectacular sandpit and he did not want to get out of the sandpit.

Vicki: So the cats aren’t peeing in your sandpit, it’s your son. Right. See you left this out of the story.

Jenna: He didn’t pee in the sandpit, he had a little spot on the front of his pants. I was watching, and I’m like you need to pee, you need to pee. And he’s like no, no Mummy sandpit. I’m like you need to get out of the sandpit. So of course sandpit’s been installed for like an hour and I’m running through the house with this kid who clearly needs to pee.

Vicki: Covered in sand.

Jenna: Because I didn’t take any time to stop and get the sand off him. So you know.

Vicki: You didn’t teach him to wee on the tree up the back?

Jenna: No, I’m actually trying, I know it’s different opinions, but I’m actually trying to teach him just because he’s a boy he’s not allowed to pee on the world.

Vicki: I know, it’s just something that I’m just not, I’m sorry, the world is not your bathroom.

Jenna: The end actually credit to Vicki, we’re doing something that will be a gift to my future son or daughter-in-law. We’re teaching him to wipe his penis after he pees.

Vicki: Much to Andrew’s disgust.

Jenna: Because you know what? No, we’re not having little pee drips everywhere, and I have control over this. I can teach and build a new breed of wonderful men who wipe. So we’re teaching him and he’s doing a very good job. He does wipe, he wipes his front, we’re using our cloth wipes still actually. We tried toilet paper the first couple of days and I basically went bleep this bleeping bleep. See, I bleeped myself, it’s fine. 

Andrew: No I did that, it was me.

Jenna: Oh, it was Andrew. It sounds a lot like me.

Vicki: Moo.

Jenna: I went moo this moo-ing moo and went and got my cloth wipes because, trying to wipe a small toddler’s butt with toilet paper is really annoying. Cloth wipes are efficient and I’m used to them and they work well. So we have still been using moistened cloth wipes to use.

Vicki: Do teach him to shake though, because otherwise when they get to school you may have an issue where they have an absolute meltdown when there is no toilet paper because that’s the only way they know how to clean their penis.

Jenna: I feel like you’re speaking from experience here.

Vicki: Yeah, just a little bit of experience. 

Jenna: You have a really regimented son. 

Vicki: Yes. He’s so unlike me.

Andrew: They don’t put toilet rolls at the trough.

Vicki: No, they don’t.

Andrew: Have you girls seen a trough?

Both: Yes.

Andrew: OK. They don’t put toilet rolls in.

Vicki: Men don’t wipe.

Vashti: Do you know how hard it is to get a female toilet at a festival or a concert or any sort of large gathering? You don’t get female toilets unless you want to line up for three hours.

Jenna: Yeah, so you go to the mens. 

Andrew: The festival that I just went to…

Vicki: You can actually get even plastic things that you can actually standing up…

Jenna: She-wee.

Vicki: Thank you.

Jenna: We got free sample ones of those at my last job. 

Andrew: Really? Somebody came in and handed them all out.

Jenna: Oh no, they were to do a review on. It was a fishing magazine and we got one to test for when you’re out. And one of the girls tested it. She likes to fish, that’s not me.

Andrew: The festival I was just at they closed the male toilets and turned them into female toilets.

Vashti: Really?

Jenna: Good, good, because it’s not, it’s bathroom unfairness. Anyway we’re teaching him to wipe, cloth wipes, he’s doing really good, but for us it worked really well. We didn’t leave the house for the first three days. I made sure I did the groceries while my husband was still at home and could stay home with him. Credit to my husband, he was absolutely so much better at the first few days of toilet training than I was. So much more attentive and so much more on top of it. 

Andrew: It actually sounds like you love your husband.

Jenna: Yeah, he seems pretty good. He’s OK.

Vicki: You’ll keep him around?

Jenna: Yeah.

Vicki: Have another child with him?

Jenna: Working on it. Give it a go. Don’t think we can say what Andrew said to me. Can you cut this bit out?

Andrew: No, I’m keeping it in because he’ll want to hear it.

Jenna: [indistinct, speaking fast, 16:08] It was when I flew to Sydney, Andrew. Andrew goes, there’s a lot of sperm between here and Sydney.

Vicki: Yeah, I did hear that. 

Jenna: Yes, but we’re after a specific type. 

Andrew: But you met him at a bar. Couldn’t you have just gone to a bar?

Jenna: Nonsense, I met him at a friend’s apartment at St Paddies day. Then we hooked up later at a bar. At Gilhoolies, where all good things happen. Anyhoo, toilet training, husband. Actually I had him booked out. I have three friends who are having some trouble toilet training, who all said can we leave our friends with Casey for the week and we’ll go away for the weekend? I had three toddlers booked in. Casey was not keen on this idea. So yeah, Ryan did really well. We weren’t planning on night training. We were going to keep using nappies until actually I got pregnant and my sleep was already messed up, because I didn’t want to give away my last few good months of sleep.

Vicki: Are you, are you, oh my gosh, are you intending to have another baby?

Jenna: Yeah.

Vicki: And how does that affect your work?

Jenna: I think my boss is really excited about it.

Andrew: We promote it. 

Vicki: Isn’t that an inhouse model?

Andrew: We went and bought the sperm for you. 

Jenna: I’m pretty sure a trip to Sydney is cheaper. 

Andrew: Depends on where you get it from. 

Vashti: We could have gotten some George Clooney or you know…

Jenna: Pretty sure that’s more expensive than an $850 trip to Sydney. I think that’s a lot cheaper. But no, I think this is the only workplace I’ve been encouraged to have a child. Inhouse model. At your service. Working on it.

Andrew: That’s right, we’ll have pictures of him, him or her, in every…

Jenna: We’ll have him in the fricken hospital.

Andrew: Every single babe, every single month we’ll have pictures of him in a nappy.

Jenna: Have all the child. Have all the children. 

Vicki: You didn’t want to have another one?

Vashti: Hell, no.

Andrew: Well she can’t with Brent. 

Jenna: That’s OK, we can get a lot of sperm between here and Sydney. We could find some.

Vicki: Well I’m heading over to Germany, there’s even more. And I just found out I’m going to be in Germany in the middle of Oktoberfest. There’s a lot of sperm then I bet.

Andrew: Both of you are going to be in Germany at Oktoberfest. 

Vashti: Well that hasn’t been revealed yet.

Jenna: Are you going?

Vashti: I am going to Germany.

Jenna: Oh my goodness. 

Andrew: Do you want me to take that out?

Vashti: No, go for it. We’re breaking news. When does this actually air, Andrew? Will it be breaking news by then?

Andrew: I think they’ll be back by then. 

Vicki: And still drunk.

Jenna: Yes, we would like to update you that as listening to this podcast that Vicki and Vashti, Vishti, as I call them, are still drunk.

Vashti: And there is plans to possibly stop in at Amsterdam as well. 

Vicki: Yeah no, I can’t remember where we’re doing. Didn’t we decide Bruges?

Vashti: Bruges.

Vicki: Bruges isn’t Amsterdam. We got like five days free.

Vashti: So there’s some really nice cafes in Amsterdam, I’ve heard.

Jenna: What kind of cafes, Vashti?

Vashti: Oh just ones that serve coffee and brownies. I love brownies. Love chocolate.

Jenna: See I’ve been to Amsterdam but I was like 15 at the time. 

Vashti: I was five, the last time I was in Amsterdam.

Vicki: I have never been to Europe. 

Vashti: My father is Dutch. Or was Dutch, he’s no longer with us. 

Jenna: I wouldn’t, is that your last name? No. Is that English?

Vashti: Maybe, I don’t know, somewhere back there. 

Jenna: I dated a Dutch guy all the way through high school so I went and had Christmas with his family when I was 15 or 16 or something like that. Went to Amsterdam.

Andrew: So, back to cloth nappies.

Vicki: We were very busy, Andrew.

Jenna: Back to cloth nappies. Yeah.

Andrew: The interesting thing you said to me before the podcast was, you aren’t using cloth nappies anymore. And you’re washing as much.

Jenna: So we’re out of nappies. I actually feel like I need to make an announcement in the groups that I’ve toilet trained. I’m not quite sure why I need to do that, but I feel like I do. I think the big thing I’ve found, at expos we say to people that the amount of laundry you do with kids, adding cloth nappies in really doesn’t make it that much more. It actually makes it more convenient for dirty, stuff with food on it or wet stuff.

Andrew: Milk.

Jenna: Milk, kids who have poured milk all over themselves. Mums who have poured all over themselves. It makes it really convenient, I know friends who have had mouldy nursing tops and stuff. Because I do cloth nappies I wash so frequently I never had that problem. So we always say this at expos, but the truth is, I’ve done cloth nappies from two weeks, so I don’t have a lot of experience with washing kids laundry without cloth nappies. And I’ve been, I must admit towards the last couple of months, knowing we were about to toilet train, I was getting like I’m a bit done with laundry and cloth nappies and stuff like that. I want a break before we do this again, and I was looking forward to the laundry load getting lighter. Fun fact, it doesn’t get lighter, that is true, when we say it doesn’t make that much of a difference, and I’m finding this out in the bad end of things. I’m like oh, this is not that much better.

Vashti: I literally with three kids at home, Mr Nest is away at the moment and I still do a minimum of one load of laundry a day.

Jenna: See I’m not doing that much but I’m doing, I have, I’m still doing nearly as much laundry as I was doing before. I’m probably doing one less load a week. And what’s happening is things are getting damp. Like we said, we’re using cloth wipes so they’re wet. My son spilled milk down the front of his shirt the other day, that’s what Andrew is talking about. He gets, I’ve never been good with bibs, because I did cloth nappies, and was washing all the time, I just threw dirty clothes in with that. Threw them in the prewash and everything came out sparkly clean. So I’m now dealing with all these damp, dirty clothes that I’ve never dealt with before that aren’t getting washed. With toddler wee, we were washing nightly at the end. We were doing prewash every night. So I’m dealing with all the stuff I wasn’t dealing with before. My laundry system is out of whack. I’m doing nearly as much laundry as before and I’m annoyed that it’s true from a personal perspective. And thrilled because it’s another great expo spiel to use. From a professional perspective. A bit torn about that.

Vicki: So you didn’t use any toilet training pants at all?

Jenna: Nope. I’m a rule for law, and the book told me to do these things and said that Pullups are just another type of nappy. Just different style.

Vicki: That’s always been, because I get asked a lot, why don’t you do a toilet training pant? And honestly it’s my stand on it. I just think it keeps kids in nappies longer. 

Vashti: See for me, I was different. We used toilet training pants on all three of our kids, but…

Andrew: Toilet training pants, are they tight on the bum?

Vashti: They’re just like a pair of undies. But they’ve got a little bit…

Vicki: They’re pretty much another nappy.

Vashti: …well yeah, there’s not as much absorbency in them, but a little amount of absorbency through the wet zone. But they’re shaped like, they’re designed…

Jenna: They’re helpful in cars and stuff so you don’t end up in a position where you have to wash your car seat and remove the fire retardant stuff.

Vicki: But if they’re not as absorbent and a toddler weed, I actually, to be perfect honest, I cannot see the point.

Vashti: See for us, for me, toilet training pants, they’re designed to catch those small leaks. So if your child is not ready to toilet train, toilet training pants aren’t going to help because they’re going to let out the whole rush. But if your child is ready for toilet training…

Jenna: A bit like what Ryan did in the sandpit yesterday.

Vashti: Yeah, toilet training pants will give you that, if you’re at the shops or in the car or something like that…

Jenna: It will give you time to run back to the car, like I did when Ryan said I need to go potty in the middle of the grocery store the other day.

Andrew: Or you could get all the sand off him before running in the house with him.

Jenna: No, just run the sand everywhere. Actually, sorry to interrupt but while I remember, in the car what we’re doing is working well, because we aren’t using toilet training, in case we have any leaks, I’ve got a newborn prefold, folded in half, kind of folded in thirds I think, just put up against his penis, under the belt buckle. Where a cloth nappy would sit. No more bulky than a cloth nappy would be. And then I’ve got a mini wet bag on the other side of that, so if he does have an accident in the car and I can’t pull over quick enough, that will catch it and it’s got a waterproof lining there. So still using some of my cloth nappy stash there. Also actually side effect of training is I’ve actually got all my nappies clean and away now. I’m seeing how many they are. It’s not a small amount, no. Sorry, I interrupted you, do continue.

Vashti: I found that toilet training pants worked for us, because we were able to not be contained at home. For us, being stuck at home for…

Jenna: Twelve days,  yeah.

Vashti: …twelve days, it wasn’t viable for any of our kids, especially not number three, who…

Jenna: You’ve got school runs and all kinds of things.

Vashti: I was doing school runs for the older two. I was working in the shop, I own my own business, I was running around. And Mr Nest was away a fair bit as well. So he was travelling for work and stuff. So it was just me. So toilet training pants were my saviour, because it meant that even though Kylan knew when he needed to go to the toilet, he didn’t quite always catch it. He’d dribble a little bit. So having the toilet training pants meant that we weren’t changing clothes, we weren’t washing car seats, we weren’t having puddles in the middle of Coles and stuff like that.

Vicki: So curious, did that extend the process?

Vashti: For Braith, no. Braith was fully toilet trained by the time he was 18 months.

Vicki: No, no, no I mean time-wise, when you start to go was it still done in a couple of days?

Vashti: Yep. So Braith was very quick. Mikayla we had, I think we started her too early and because of issues she’d had from her allergies from disposables in those first few weeks, she was quite slow to toilet train. And Kylan, he was down pat, he knew what he had to do. But I didn’t really push him. So yeah. I don’t think it extended the process for us in any way, we still got through it fairly quickly but it was always good to have those toilet training pants afterwards just for that peace of mind, for me.

Jenna: On night training, still using nappies and I suppose this might be the same with toilet training pants, for washing, in case anyone out there is wondering how the heck you do your washing if you’ve got toilet training pants that have wee in them, if you’re still doing night nappies and you don’t have day nappies and stuff. Best advice there is do a really good hand rinse with some detergent and hot water, a couple of rinses, just by hand, and then just throw it in with your normal clothes. Make sure you give them, especially night nappies, because by that age if they’re toilet training, their night nappies are pretty full of wee. So giving that a good hand rinse in a lot of hot water and a little bit of, just a teaspoon of detergent and then throw that in with your normal laundry is the best way to go about that, in case anyone’s curious. We were doing that for a week or two I think. And then what happened is Ryan was waking dry a lot of mornings and we really didn’t want to night train. As I said, I was waiting until I was pregnant and my sleep was already interrupted and he started waking dry. And then at 4 am he started crying one morning. And I was like, what is his problem? Because he sleeps through the night now. I went in there and I was trying to work it out and I couldn’t quite work out what was up and I put him down, and I noticed his nappy the next morning was wet. I was like OK. And then the next morning, I wonder if that’s what it was. The next morning he woke at 4 and weed again. He’s my child, he’s very regimented. And I changed his nappy and realised he’d just weed in it. So I’m getting up, I was like OK. My husband was like, we need to listen to him. He’s screaming out to us that he’s ready to night train. So we took the side off the cot and put his potty out. And I think day two of that we woke up. I looked at him on the monitor and he’d taken his pants off and he was sitting on the potty doing a wee on his own. Like he woke up in the morning and sat down and did a wee all on his own before we woke up. I was like, he was so ready. Telling us, we’re not listening. We adjusted…

Vashti: In that as well…

Jenna: I changed plans. It hurt, and Casey had to tell me to do it, but I did it.

Vashti: But not all kids night train at the same time as they day train though.

Jenna: We really, we hadn’t, most of my friends that I know do it at a different time, and we were not intending on training at all. Ryan just was like no, we’re doing this Mum and Dad, can you please listen to me, I’m ready for this. So we had to.

Vicki: Now what’s really interesting is you toilet trained pretty much the same way we did, and our kids day and night trained at the same time. So I wonder whether, who knows? 

Jenna: It’s that whole, I very much, I was planning on sending my nappies down to my Mum to have an extended dry, to be honest, and I was going to say, we’re putting them in the car, let’s get rid of them. But Ryan seems pretty chill with the fact that they’re still in his room, we just don’t use them anymore. So we’ve just kind of left them there. 

Andrew: How many did you have?

Jenna: Oh Andrew. 

Vashti: That’s not a good question to ask somebody who works for a nappy company.

Jenna: I would like to very quickly clarify this by saying we’ve done a lot of product photos, a lot of videos, and I think altogether, of all in twos, I have about 60. I’m not done.

Vicki: That’s not even, you’re not even trying.

Jenna: The thing I was thinking about, I’ve easily given away about 30 nappies.

Vicki: You’re still not even trying. 

Jenna: Because I know, I had a couple of friends they’d come over, I love that print and I missed out. I never felt comfortable, even though we didn’t need them all, selling any of my nappies that I got for photo shoots or to do product imagery, that didn’t sit well with me. I wanted to do something nice with them. So if friends came over and said that, I’d be like here, have it, and hand them the nappy. Or I had a friend with a mould incident and I helped her get back into cloth by giving her 15 nappies, I think. So I gave a lot of nappies away. So that’s just my all in twos, by the way. Then I’ve got night nappies. I’ve got fitted, I’ve got about 10, 12, between bamboo delights, bigs, I was just going to say what are the big Bam Bams, and then I worked it out myself. 

Vashti: Ecoposh? You’ve got some Ecoposh in there?

Jenna: Yep, I’ve got four of the, yeah fitted nappies I’ve got Ecoposh, I’ve got our bamboo delights, I’ve got Bigs, I’ve got a few Seedlings and Gro-Vias in there. And then prefolds. I’m not up to prefolds yet. I’ve got may 15 prefolds, some flats that I had, if we talk about those muslin flats that I used for boosting for night nappies, I’ve got another 15 of those. I could cloth triplets.

Vicki: I think Andrew underestimates how many nappies I actually have.

Jenna: I could cloth triplets.

Andrew: So they’re still in Ryan’s room, you haven’t actually shifted them yet?

Jenna: Yeah, they’re still in the change table in Ryan’s room. That seemed an easy place to put them. I was planning on moving them, but he doesn’t seem at all fussed about the fact. He pointed to them the other day and went “Nappies over there” and I went yep, and we don’t wear them anymore do we? Because he’s a big boy. He doesn’t like being told he’s a big boy or grown up, he’s smart, he’s onto it, he knows it’s a trick. He goes, he’s like “No, Ryan not grown up. Ryan little”. And I’m like yeah, growing up is a trick, dude. But he really likes if you tell him he’s clever. If you tell him he’s clever he’s really chuffed with that. But he’s onto us about this whole grown up thing. He knows that it’s not good. He knows that it’s a trick.

Andrew: So when you store them, how are you going to store them?

Jenna: I’m not, I’m just going to leave them there.

Andrew: OK, you’re that confident you’re going to have another baby so quickly you’re not even going to put them away?

Jenna: Well where am I going to put them? 

Vicki: We had four years before our kids and they just hung around in a basket somewhere.

Jenna: Well the thing is, I have to find somewhere to store them if I do that. At the moment they’re all stored under the change table, neatly in boxes. I’ve tidied them all. I did go through and tidy them all because it was a bit of a, what’s another word for [indistinct, 31:49]. I was a bit of a cluster…

Vicki: I’m going to moo so much in this episode.

Andrew: I’ve never had to edit somebody so much. 

Vicki: When it’s not me. 

Jenna: And here am I, the prude that never swears on radio. A bit of a mess, there we go. It was a cluster under there, I just shoved nappies in left, right and centre. I have a few with some small holes that need repairing or ones that I couldn’t find the booster for or stuff like that.

Andrew: Yeah, so that’s my next question. What sort of condition are they in? Are you going to be able to go straight to the next baby?

Jenna: Absolutely. Most of them are, and keep in mind I’ve been “collecting” nappies as we go. So not all of mine have a full two years use on them. But they’re all really good. The only ones I have that…

Andrew: Well when you’ve got 60 nappies, none of them are going to be…

Jenna: Exactly, I’ve got a huge stash so the rotation on them is not bad. And the Bamboo Delights, two of them I bought a week before he night trained because we weren’t intending on night training, and that’s where the stop came in. I do have that have, the Candys and the… Vicki help me. Snaps. The snaps on the trifolds…

Vashti: Vicki’s a bit too tired actually. Are you getting a migraine? Because your circles are getting really dark.

Vicki: She travelled through China with me and she can see, she can actually just look at me and say you’re getting a migraine aren’t you?

Jenna: A little warning sign.

Vashti: Eight, nine days in China, I think I picked it up on day two. Like…

Vicki: You just see it coming.

Vashti: It really is obvious.

Vicki: So I go dark under the eyes everybody, it’s not lack of sleep, it’s actually stress.

Jenna: Why would you be stressed? Snaps is the word I was after. So the fabric around the snaps is disintegrating around two of mine. I’m using air quotes here, you can’t see that, it’s a good idea for a podcast. And I know which ones those are because I cut the label, I split the label so I could pick them out of the other ones. What they are is, I don’t know if you remember, she doesn’t care, Cleese Berryman. She bought some nappies second hand and it said they were in a good condition. She got them and they were atrocious. And she stripped them a couple of times and then she brought them to the expo and said Jenna, do you want to have another go, because they’re still coming up really crap. So I had another go with slightly stronger bleach soak and I managed to get them up to a good condition again. They didn’t smell, they were white again. They weren’t stinky as soon as they came off Ryan. They were nice and clean after that. But those two had the most wear and tear. It shows a lot about washing.

Vicki: Ammonia. Ammonia build up from…

Jenna: Yeah, that’s exactly what we talked about. It’s around the stress points.

Vashti: The stress point is the snaps, because they’re constantly pulling at the fabric. 

Jenna: Exactly, but those had really bad ammonia damage. I’ve been using them and had them in rotation just out of curiosity. And you know what? Except for around the snaps, they’re actually holding up pretty well. Not really any other problems other than that. But you can tell the ones that…

Vicki: And the PUL is OK in them? 

Jenna: No, she only bought me inserts. She had them. I had one nappy that’s a little sticky. It’s not delaminated but I think it might be heading that way. But I think it might have been, it’s one nappy, something’s happened to it. 

Vicki: Well actually Amy, Amy from Clean Cloth Nappy Hire actually posted something just in…

Vashti: One of our industry groups.

Vicki: …yeah the other day about a nappy that she had left in a wet bag in the car. 

Vashti: And it was eight days.

Vicki: Yeah, and there’s actually marks on the wet bag where the nappy was sitting, where there’s a little bit, it looks like it’s starting to delaminate in its spots. You can actually see almost like bleach spots. And so she’s going to do a little bit of research with that. Pretty much ammonia is hands down the most damaging thing for your nappy.

Vashti: She’s got a toddler though as well, so they are very strong wees. 

Vicki: Yes, she does.

Vashti: It’s quite funny though, I had a nappy, I remember I had a nappy, it was one of my favourite nappies when Mikayla was still quite young, because we were living in Victoria so she was less than six months old. And it got the poonami of all poonamis in it. Threw it in the wet bag and it fell underneath the front seat of the car. And it wasn’t until two or three loads later that I went where is that nappy? Went hunting and found it.

Andrew: Wait a minute, wait a minute. It was in a wet bag and it was in there for three days…

Vashti: Two or three loads. So about a week.

Vicki: It could be a week.

Vashti: About a week. 

Andrew: And you couldn’t smell it?

Vashti: Nope.

Andrew: So that wet bag was holding that smell in?

Vashti: Yes.

Andrew: Wow. That’s great.

Vashti: It was an exclusively breastfeed baby poo though, so it’s not as smelly as other poo.

Jenna: That’s just custard.

Vashti: But in a car in central Victoria in summer, parked in a garage that had no insulation or anything like that, so you open the car door and a wall of heat hits you. Pulls the wet bag out when I realised it was still in the car, opened it  up and near got knocked out by the smell. Considered, very, very strongly considered just throwing it in the bin, but decided I’d clean it up and it cleaned up OK and it was all fine. There was no issues with it. Because it was one of my favourite nappies. 

Andrew: You guys always say don’t leave wee on the nappies, but you’re ruining that by saying this.

Vashti: I know, well…

Vicki: What we’re saying is, and this is where, and it would be good to do a podcast actually on busting some of the cloth nappy myths of long ago. But what we’re saying is that whilst that nappy may not have been damaged that day, the treatment that it had means that in two years time, it’s not going to be in that same condition because of the treatment that it’s had along the way. The ammonia has damaged it and it will…

Vashti: Which is what Jenna found with those inserts, that had been…

Jenna: And also it’s consistent ammonia damage versus a one off bad time, which would actually be worse. And also you’re asking about condition. I did have some inserts from two different brands, both bamboo cotton blend that had some holes in it that did need to sew over and those where from when I tried a three day wash cycle to see if I could get away with it and the answer is no, I couldn’t. Because I started getting holes and what I did at the time is I sewed over all the holes so I could know if I was getting new ones or if it was the same ones. And when I switched to daily prewash, with my three day wash cycle, I didn’t get any more holes. So absolutely I saw very easily the effects.

Vicki: Very distinct.

Jenna: I saw very distinctively how ammonia was damaging my nappies very immediately by doing that. And like I said, sewed over them so I could see if there was more or less, and when I switched to a daily prewash that all resolved itself. 

Vicki: That all really makes sense. Those nappies towards the end of Gabriel’s toileting, when he was only using one or two nappies a day…

Vashti: And you were washing once a week.

Vicki: If that, if that. It’s no wonder, it’s absolutely no wonder that pretty much by the end of it, those nappies fell apart.

Jenna: And I have a friend who recently replaced a lot of her inserts from her old nappies because she, her oldest is five and she was using the old school wash routine and stuff. And she wasn’t, it was cold, eco detergent, not enough of it, that kind of stuff. And you could see the ammonia damage in all the nappies, just shredded. And she’s replaced them with Candies and she’s actually, through no prodding of me actually, it was one of those times when she was, I don’t think she wants to be pushed, I’ll just let her. And she actually…

Vicki: Oh this is your friend who pretty much was right into the whole eco detergents and she didn’t think her nappies were dirty? Is that the friend you’re talking about?

Jenna: No, no, I think I just didn’t have the conversation with her. She wasn’t in the best place at the time, I didn’t want to be like here’s something you’re doing wrong. I was trying to approach it with more kindness. And not pushing her. Her kid was near toilet training, it was neither here nor there. But she ended up messaging me, how do I do a strip and sanitise? What’s your recommended procedure? And she’s actually like I’ve switched to this, oh my God they’re all so much cleaner. Blah, blah, I didn’t realise. She actually…

Vicki: Because you don’t know what you don’t know.

Jenna: And the thing is, I think so many people don’t realise their nappies are dirty until, I’ve had a few, you know how I said I was giving nappies away at some point? I had three different friends, no sorry two different friends, three nappies, two different friends, message me and say I didn’t realise my nappies were dirty until I brought one of yours home. And she was like, they didn’t realise theirs were all grey and brown, off colour and stuff, until they had one of my well-worn but very clean inserts up against it, and they were like, can I have some watch advice? That actually led to a bunch of wash advice. I forgot about that.

Vicki: That is actually, I know this is going to sound completely off topic but I will bring it through, but this is like when you breastfeed a toddler. When you start breastfeeding, you breastfeed a brand new baby, and this baby grows, and every single day this kid is getting bigger, but you don’t see it because you’re just feeding them every day. And then all of a sudden you’ve got a three or three and a half year old, and don’t get me wrong, I see a three or three and a half year old breastfeeding, it even takes me back, but I did it. But it’s weird. And I think it’s the same thing with washing, because it’s a slow process you don’t know

Jenna: You don’t realise, it’s slow, you don’t notice it. And it’s funny you say that, I had a friend, she was breastfeeding her toddler and Ryan was very young and I was breastfeeding him, and I looked over and I went, that looks weird. 

Vicki: Yes, it does.

Jenna: The head is bigger than your boob and it looks very, very strange. And I said that, and I was like not judgemental, I was like it looks very strange. And then she was like OK, that’s interesting, flash forward a year and a half. Ryan was a toddler breastfeeding and she had her second, who was a newborn that she was breastfeeding and she looked over and went oh, oh, I know what you’re talking about now. I just had that weird… I was like uh huh. I’ll have another newborn because I get to do it again. But yeah, you’re so right because it happens so…

Vashti: Slowly.

Jenna: I remember being pregnant and arrogant as you are at the time…

Vicki: No!

Jenna: I know, right.

Vicki: Such a, is anybody not a sancta-mummy? 

Jenna: I tried very hard not to do, Andrew’s raising, Andrew is not a sancta-mummy. That is very true.

Andrew: Me, I’ve got my hand up. 

Jenna: Sancta-daddy. I tried very hard not to do the thing you do when you’re pregnant, when you’re like this and this and this. 

Vicki: My kid is not going to eat McDonalds. Yeah everyone laughed at me too.

Jenna: There are a lot of things that I didn’t do that with, but the one that I did was like I want to breastfeed, but anything past a year is just weird. I got to a year and I couldn’t imagine weaning Ryan at a year. It was just like wow, I didn’t know what the hell I was… anyway it was really funny around that time people were asking me, when do you think you’ll wean? And I remember saying I don’t know. Any idea, roughly? Do you want to go fully with them weaning, or do you want to just do… I kept saying I’ve had hubris about this before and I’m not going to do it again. I’m literally not putting a time or a date or an age on it or anything, because I thought I knew what I was talking about before and I didn’t. And at that point I very much was just following, not even following his lead, but following the ethos that as long as both of us are happy we’ll keep doing it. And we got to a point where I wasn’t, so I did initiate weaning. But it was very much something that I couldn’t have understood until I was there, because you don’t start, and Mum said this to me once. I’m like, I wouldn’t know what to do with a ten year old. Mum goes, you’ve got ten years to work that out. 

Vicki: Yeah, you do.

Jenna: And I was like, it was one of those really crystallising moments for me where I was like oh, you’re right. You don’t need to know how to deal with a newborn and a ten year old at the same time. You’re doing one of those at a time.

Vicki: Because I can tell you, if they actually gave you a ten year old, or worse a fourteen year old, you seriously, nobody would dump that on you because you would literally be flailing, because I’m flailing with a fourteen year old as it is. And I know this kid inside out. 

Jenna: Teenagers suck, people, they suck big time.

Vicki: There is a time you will go back, you will wish for the two year old tantrums. 

Jenna: I don’t know, I had a hysterical toddler at 10 pm I’d like to point out Casey and I had gone to bed an hour earlier. We’d gone to bed early. Hysterical last night, because he wanted his water bottle in the corner of his cot and it was not.

Vicki: It was in the middle of his cot? 

Jenna: But I didn’t know what it was. I didn’t work that out until he’s suddenly screaming after I’d gone in, Casey had gone in, this was my take two, half an hour of this hysteria, and he farted and then he said “water bottle corner”. And I put the water bottle in the corner and he calmed down. I’ve no idea if it was the far upsetting his stomach.

Vicki: See I just got the fart from my son and the giggles. That was our night. But parenting isn’t…

Jenna: I co-slept last night and remembered why I don’t do that. It’s horrible. Vashti and I have very different sleep opinions. I can see why it should be good, but I don’t think my kid has that setting. Four o’clock I gave up after I still don’t really know what his hysteria was about last night, but he got upset and we both tried. No idea what was up with him. He wasn’t even scared. Ended up bringing him into the bed and was like screw it, I’ll try, 4 am I was just like do you want to come and cuddle in Mummy and Daddy’s bed? He spent an hour and a half sitting up, sitting down, jumping on us, moving around. He did not sleep a wink. He did not try and sleep.

Vashti: That’s because he’s not used to it. It’s something new to him. Whereas…

Jenna: Yes, and it was just like he headbutted me and he kicked. And I was like oh yeah, you don’t do this, but from a newborn if we lay him in bed, that’s why I didn’t understand, I think I told you this, I didn’t understand co-sleeping wasn’t breast sleeping. Because if I lay him in bed with us he’d just scream. From a newborn and I was just like OK, that mustn’t be… so I started breastfeeding him lying down and he’d do that. But if he slept in the bed with us he’d do that all night. He wouldn’t, there was no, and if I tried to take him off and lie him next to us, he’d just start screaming again. OK, that’s not a setting you have. And he was, oh goodness, six, seven months old when I said that to a friend. She goes you know that’s not co-sleep. That doesn’t mean, co-sleeping doesn’t always mean breast sleeping, right? And I’m like, no? I literally didn’t understand there were two different things.

Vicki: All of our kids had different variations. Abbey wasn’t a co-sleeper. Gabriel is. Gabriel still. He would happily at seven, still be in our bed.

Vashti: Kylan still happily sleeps in our bed and he’s five next month. We’re actually redesigning the whole house at the moment and moving everyone around, so he will be in his own bed for the first time. He’s got the cot side carted to our bed, but especially with Brent away, he’s in our, we’ve got a king bed, it’s OK. And do you know what? I will start him over his side of the bed, right next to the cot. I’d love to put him in the cot but I know that that won’t last. So I’ll start him all the way over the other side. He will still leave to me in the middle of the night so I can’t move. 

Jenna: Even going on two and a half, Ryan last night didn’t want to sleep next to us, he wanted to sleep on top of Casey. Again, he doesn’t get that…

Vashti: Your child just doesn’t do co-sleeping. 

Jenna: He just doesn’t understand. But yeah, I said the words if you don’t lie down you have to go back to your bed, like 72 times this morning. It’s someone else’s problem today. I dropped him at Guy’s and went have fun, bye, he’s been up since four, he might need an early nap. I’m going now. And then I came here. What are we meant to be talking about, Andrew? 

Andrew: Andrew’s gone. Andrew’s not here.

Vicki: Please leave a message. After the beep.

Jenna: Toilet training. 

Vicki: Moo, moo.

Jenna: I have an unrelated but cloth nappy thing to say.

Andrew: I’m actually sitting here wondering when the best time to end this podcast is.

Jenna: Can I put a bonus fun fact at the end of it?

Andrew: I don’t know, you guys are just bringing all the cool stuff in. You guys got more to talk about, we’re already over 50 minutes now.

Jenna: Well I’ve got a bonus fun fact.

Andrew: Except for all the swearing I’ve got to take out.

Vicki: It’s mooing, just moo it.

Jenna: Moo.

Andrew: It’s going to take it back to 40.

Jenna: I am sorry. I am not. I hope my mother’s not listening now actually. 

Vashti: Should I just join in, just for the hell of it?

Jenna: Yeah, why are you not swearing? Quickly.

Vashti: I don’t know [laughter and clapping].

Andrew: You know, every time you say a swear word it takes me five minutes to fix it.

Vicki: You love it though Andrew. 

Andrew: I’m going to keep all the swear words and string them together on one… and play it to you. Think of that.

Jenna: I think it sounds like a good song. 

Vashti: Can it be my new ring tone? 

Jenna: Yes, love it. My bonus fun fact was about muconium [sic]. Yah, everyone’s…

Vicki: Muconium [sic]?

Jenna: Muconium, meconium?

Vicki: Meconium. 

Jenna: Meconium, it’s one of those one’s I’ve always read.

Vicki: It’s an E not a U. Me-conium.

Jenna: Meconium, OK, meconium. It’s not as hard to get out of nappies as you thought it was. Well I didn’t think it was, but…

Andrew: This is something that happens at birth.

Jenna: Did you not know I had a newborn?

Andrew: You don’t have a newborn.

Vicki: No, she’s sick of washing, she can’t wait to stop washing and then she offers to wash a friend’s nappies.

Jenna: My friend wanted to start cloth in hospital, what do you do for another cloth mum who wants to start in hospital? You offer to wash her nappies for her. So my friend had, congratulations Jess, you can be the creepy one, the one creeped out by being spoken to on the podcast now. My friend had a little baby boy last week. 

Vashti: I know, and she announced it and didn’t share photos, so I said…

Jenna: I know, she didn’t announce it she randomly commented somewhere and said she had a one day old.

Vashti: And I’m like, photos or it didn’t happen.

Jenna: He’s very, very cute.

Andrew: Keep on subject, this is not a Facebook rant. Podcast, not a Facebook rant. 

Jenna: You sure? I think it is. So she had a baby and I went and I offered to clean her nappies for her so she could start in cloth without any fuss at the hospital and not have to worry about it until she got home. So I got the nappies, and the thing is, the meconium by the time I picked them up had been on for, I want to say a day and a half, maybe two days by the time I rinsed them. So a little bit. I rinsed them off, I’ve got a sprayer, rinsed it off. By the way, first time I’ve ever seen meconium, because I never saw Ryan’s, because Ryan was four days old before I changed a nappy.

Vashti: Nice.

Andrew: Three days, it would have turned into amber by then wouldn’t it?

Jenna: I very clearly turned around to my husband and I was like, when you have stitches in your genitals, you can change a nappy. No, thank you.

Vicki: Get out of changing nappies.

Jenna: I need to eat lunch. Anyway. Blah, blah, blah. Anyway I rinsed it off with my sprayer and it was still really stained, like a maroon colour, think Queensland.

Vicki: The best state. Or not.

Jenna: And I was like, honestly what happened was I was a bit tired and I wanted to go to bed. So I was just like you know what, I’m going to put these on, when they’re stained in the morning I’ll grab out the ones that are still stained and I’ll soak them in some Napisan and get it out.

Vicki: You did not sun them? Let’s not go there.

Jenna: No, I wasn’t going to sun them to sanitise them. And I took them out the next morning and couldn’t find a stain anywhere. Two step wash cycle, I did spray stain remover on them, and I did delay the wash for half an hour so the stain remover sat on it for half an hour. And I did a 60 degree prewash and a 60 degree main wash, just to cover my bases, and yep, came out sparkly clean, absolutely no problem. So I know that’s something a lot of people stress about, if they want to use cloth from birth. And honestly, it came out so easily, it does look horrifying and sticky and I definitely didn’t chase my husband around the house saying hey, want to look at this? I’m a nice wife. 

Andrew: That’s your favourite game, isn’t it? 

Vicki: No, that’s his.

Jenna: Have a look at this. It’s a very different game. But yeah, it came out. I know that’s something people stress about using cloth from birth and it came out so easy, it wasn’t a problem at all. So that’s my completely unrelated fun fact.

Vashti: So just in case you wanted to know, this started about a toilet training episode and ended up in breastfeeding and co-sleeping and meconium. 

Vicki: And another fun fact, parenting doesn’t actually get any easier, it just changes. So don’t think, here I rant about teenagers because that’s what I’m going through. You’re ranting about two year olds having tantrums, you’re ranting about four year olds who just can’t sit still. It’s all relevant, it’s all relevant.

Jenna: I will say this, I don’t think, from my experience at least, any of it is as, I wasn’t to say intense is the word I’m going to use, as the newborn stage. That stage…

Vicki: Oh my gosh, I found that the easiest.

Vashti: Oh no, the newborn stage is so easy, they sleep and feed…

Andrew: [Quacks] [laughter]

Jenna: Vashti, stop bringing down the tone, OK? She’s gone red.

Vashti: I didn’t even mean to do that.

Andrew: You’ve just confused everyone, because what they heard was breastfeed, sleep, moo. 

Vashti: Oh sweetie, if your newborn is mooing, something is very wrong. 

Vicki: But that actually just goes to prove the point that everybody’s experience is different and it’s just each stage has its own challenges.

Jenna: Yeah, I think for me it’s the whole like, he can play on his own for half an hour. It’s the whole like you’re holding them, they’re needing you constantly.

Vicki: No, you know what it is? You’re so organised, you like structure, and newborns do not offer structure at all, even the most…

Jenna: And Jess says that, Jess will say this to me, like my friend, I find a lot of people who don’t have your hormones have a better memory of your life from different stages. And she said to me, she turned around, yeah…

Andrew: Quack, quack.

Jenna: Moo newborn. And as a toddler he is great at independent play, and he’s a really chilled kid. Whereas the newborn stage for me was such a struggle. So I found it got, it’s the around the clock-ness. I like that it’s not around the cloth anymore and it’s not…

Vicki: That’s because your kid sleeps through, like ours, Gabe didn’t sleep through until he was four.

Jenna: Even during the day, the fact that he can sit and play and not need to be held, not need to sleep on me. I don’t know, I just found that so, and even going over and seeing friends with newborns, I’m like I just think that’s so intense.

Vicki: It is, it is.

Jenna: They need you hugely. I can leave the house and someone else can feed him. And again, everyone’s experience is different, because if you had no luck breastfeeding or didn’t want to and you’re bottle feeding, you can leave the house. Or if your kid takes a bottle, my kid never took a bottle. Like you can have expressed milk. I think…

Vicki: See I think carrying a baby hooked up to your boob and being able to do stuff was actually probably the easiest part of…

Vashti: I was back at the shop when Kylan was seven weeks old and he was going with me. He was at the shop with me until he was 14 months. He was in the carrier. I was serving customers and breastfeeding him at the same time. So you know, it was just…

Jenna: Just scrub my face.

Vashti: …it’s weird, you’re sitting there going what the…

Jenna: It’s a confused look.

Vicki: It’s different for everybody and each and I don’t think any stage is good or bad, it’s just different. That’s the best way to explain it.

Jenna: I was listening to you talking about the teenage problems and they’re just so complicated. 

Vashti: But you’ve got another 11 years to work that out. 

Vicki: And then you still won’t have the answers.

Jenna: Ssh, I’ll know everything. 

Vicki: No, he will know everything, you won’t know anything. 

Vashti: Braith’s 14, and you know what, I’m just so over it. Braith’s 14 in October.

Jenna: So toilet training, that’s where we started here.

Andrew: So thank you Vashti.

Vashti: Thanks Andrew.

Andrew: Thanks Vicki.

Vicki: Thanks Andrew.

Andrew: Thanks Jenna.

Jenna: I think you’re welcome. I’m not sure how much I derailed this.

Andrew: Bye everybody.

[Music]

Andrew: Vicki Simpson is a wife and mother to three children, President of the Australian Nappy Association and owner and founder of Bubblebubs. Vicki has been making and selling cloth nappies through her website for 15 years. Bubblebubs is now one of the most recognised and awarded cloth nappy brands in Australia, and is currently expanding to other countries. You can find out more and contact her through her website, bubblebubs.com.au. Vashti Wadwell is mother to three children and has been using cloth nappies for 13 years. She is the owner of Australia’s first cloth nappy store, Nest Nappies, located in Brisbane, Australia. She can be contacted through her website, nestnappies.com.au. If you would like to give us feedback, go to nappyleaks.com.au. If you are finding this podcast helpful, the way to thank us is to leave feedback in the iTunes store or wherever you listen to podcasts. I am your host, Andrew Simpson. 

[Music]

Jenna: Do we have an award for most off-topic…

Flat nappies are versatile and with the correct fold will fit any baby. Vicki and Vashti take us through how to use flat nappies and what to look for when buying them.

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